Megan (00:05.378)

Hi everyone, welcome to the podcast What No Mom Told You. My name is Megan Nelson and I'm here with my faithful co-host Pauline who's gonna actually introduce our guests for today.

Pauline (00:21.389)

Hello everybody. I'm Pauline and I'm so excited to introduce you today to these two wonderful and at times a little bit wacky ladies who are two of my very best friends who became part of my family and when I was going through my own journey. So

Lauren Benetos (00:25.315)

Yeah, just really work.

Gerty (00:35.033)

Pauline (00:44.927)

I didn't like the way I said that. So we're just gonna I'm gonna do that again. I'm gonna mark that. Okay. Hello everybody. I'm Pauline and I'm so happy to introduce you today to these two lovely and at times wacky ladies from my life, Lauren and Gerty, who have been friends with me for at least I'm 20 years. And we met.

Lauren Benetos (01:08.687)

What do you?

Pauline (01:12.991)

through social support, going through our own experiences building our family. And Lauren and Gerty both have incredible stories to share about what their experience building their families looked like. And it wasn't always fun and happy. In fact, both of these ladies have children that are no longer with us and living children who are here Earthside. So

Today we're gonna honor, and I have goosebumps already, Nicholas and Rogan who shaped who they are today. And they are so gratefully willing to share their story so that moms who are listening or dads or grandparents don't feel alone like that they are the only one that this is happening to. So

Because we are both all of us of around the same age. This was not yesterday. Things have changed a lot since Nicholas was born. since we said goodbye to Rogan. And there's a lot of things that are still the same. So I  was excited to invite them both here because they are

Even though like I'm in the friend group, like these two are really best friends and they do stuff without us, the rest of the friend group, it's fine. and but I think that their shared experiences have really drew them close together. And even now, 20 years later, they're still best friends. So I I want the community and the people listening to

Megan (02:42.155)

Ha.

Megan (02:45.718)

Mm.

Pauline (02:59.971)

To hear their stories and not feel alone and also have some hope for the future that you know the experiences you're might be living through are a moment in time and shape who you are for the rest of your life, but there's a whole other life coming. So I'm I'm gonna ask Lauren to start us off because if we just go back chronologically, Nicholas was the first kid in the

Family chat. So Lauren, can you share a little bit about Nicholas' story?

Lauren Benetos (03:38.203)

Sure. But to respond to that we do things without you, I think that's more geographic in nature, ma'am. Yeah, that's true, that's true. so I got married in two thousand three and I thought I was gonna be one of those people who had a very difficult time getting pregnant. but

Gerty (03:44.572)

Yeah.

Pauline (03:45.271)

I mean I have a car.

Lauren Benetos (04:00.766)

It was funny because you know I was trying to get pregnant and then I got pregnant relatively quickly in 2004, late 2004, and I was surprised. so my pregnancy was pretty normal, like typical. and then up came along that 20-week sonogram that you have, you know, where they're kind of do that really in-depth sonogram. And I had scheduled that and the

little bugger was being uncooperative for the heart sonogram. So they were trying and trying and trying and the tech was like, you're gonna have to come back. I'm gonna have to schedule this with our cardio cardiologist who does the sonogram. So that happened and it was just really a very like odd situation because I was having a cardiologist do the scan and she discovered that Nicholas had a heart condition.

And it was just really coincidental. it wasn't, you know, it wasn't scheduled that way because they thought there was an issue. It just, you know, they just couldn't get the heart on the on the sonogram. So it was one of those moments where in there like, you know, your your son has a heart condition, you know, you kind of like see yourself from above like a really weird you know, but so with that, we had started seeing another cardiologist, a

Megan (05:22.062)

Mm-hmm.

Lauren Benetos (05:30.453)

fetal cardiology specialist and it was something that was extremely rare. that it's like a one in a million kind of thing that Nicholas had which was called called trunchus arteriosis. it turned out that even the cardiologist here on Long Island could not deal with our situation. So we had to start going to a cardiologist, a fetal cardiologist at Columbia Presbyterian and

I was going to have to deliver there, all of that. through all of this, you know, I was under the impression that it was like, you know, an 80% chance that everything was gonna be fine and a 20% chance that it wasn't.

As we had gone and and went into the city to see this other fetal cardiologist, he kind of like flipped the script on us and he's like, Unfortunately, the information you were given is wrong. It's probably a 20% chance of survival, 80% chance not. But, you know, we were going along, I got up to 36 weeks, and I was going for regular sonograms, and they had noticed that my sonogram that Nicholas

Was in what's called high drops, where I think you know, like more than three of your organs were filling with fluid. So they had seen that this was happening. I had to go immediately to Columbia Presbyterian. I was 36 weeks at a time. they had me they ended up doing an induction, had me go through the labor. I was in labor for about 36 hours.

Pauline (06:57.741)

Mm.

Lauren Benetos (07:16.252)

it was a really long time until finally they realized that with all the pushing I was doing, I was pushing for about five hours. that they had to do a C-section. He wasn't gonna get past my cervix. at that point, because I had been pushing for so long, I was becoming hypersensitive to all like I felt everything. And so they mentioned, you know, that I was gonna have to have a c-section and that

All the medication they were using wasn't working anymore, so they were going to have to put me out of general anesthesia, which I really didn't want because I had learned that Nicholas had had several cardiac arrests while this was all happening. and I really wanted to be able to at least hold him and see him alive because they were basically saying that I was going to have to deliver him and that it was going to be palliative.

care. There was nothing that they could do for him at that point. His heart had taken up most of his chest cavity at that point and did not allow the other organs to grow properly. So when they had told me they were going to put me under general anesthesia, I was sort of fighting them, and at that point they did a sonogram, and I learned that he was gone. It had happened during my labor. So

You know, he he ended up being stillborn, but you know, I mean he was six pounds, seven ounces, full thirty six week baby. you know, and I I I I had a really difficult time, right? You know, grappling with that. there was a lot of situations that occurred, you know, they kept me on the maternity ward. It was very, very difficult. I was in a room with a woman with twins and I'm like, Well why are you leaving me here? Then they bring me send me

down to another room and the nurse is like, you're from maternity, where's your baby? And I'm like, you know, do they not tell these people like what's going on when they're sending patients? but you know it was a really difficult time. I didn't really know

Megan (09:24.803)

Yeah.

Megan (09:32.012)

Can I ask how long you were able to him to be with you?

Lauren Benetos (09:37.851)

I would say he was born very early in the morning at about 7 AM. and they left him there with me until the early afternoon. That was also a really difficult moment, because I didn't want to let him go. I knew I was never going to see him again.

So it was really hard. You know, they left the bassinet in the room and they're like, you know, we have to, we have to take him and that was that was probably like one of the most gut wrenching moments of my life because, you know, you know you're never gonna see your baby again. Like that was it. Yeah. You know, and then some even just trying to get pregnant for you know, and probably it took me about six months to get pregnant, which is pretty average.

Pauline (10:21.079)

Yeah. And you'd waited thirty six weeks to meet him.

Lauren Benetos (10:34.69)

but during this process, as they were trying to figure out, you know, why he had this heart condition, I learned that I had something called a balanced translocation, which is an an issue with my chromosomes. And it turned out that Nicholas had my same balanced translocation. So when they learned this of like, you have to hang on to this one because he's balanced, like it's gonna be very difficult for you to have another baby because of

this balanced translocation it causes an the the people, the geneticists

Pauline (11:07.629)

Wait, who was saying who was saying to hang on to him?

Pauline (11:17.037)

Before they knew that anything was wrong with his heart. gosh.

Lauren Benetos (11:19.786)

Yes. And then and then I said, Well, he's got a heart condition and then and they're like, Well, that's why they did the genetic studies because they wanted to see if they could correlate something with chromosomal reasons. And it wasn't. It was it was a spontaneous thing. and but I did learn I had this balanced translocation, which, you know,

Megan (11:33.144)

Mm.

Lauren Benetos (11:44.716)

caused me to have infertility for many years after, which we can get into later. But you know

Pauline (11:49.284)

Yeah. So you find out that like you the baby that you have isn't gonna survive and you might not be able to have another baby at the same time.

Lauren Benetos (11:57.179)

Yeah, or easily, yes, or easily, yes. Yes. So I didn't really know anyone at the time that had lost a child. And oddly like my mom did though. Before she had my brother and I, my mom had a a stillbirth.

And, you know, at the time, you know, who knows how many times she was pregnant, you know, you're talking about the sixties, right? She she had been late for a period, many times, right, trying to get pregnant. She had long stretches of time between between trying to have children. And it turned out that she has the same balance translocation that I do. the the baby

Pauline (12:41.155)

Did you know that then?

Lauren Benetos (12:43.02)

No, this is we we all learned this all through my pregnancy with Nicholas. You know, she had thought that she had the baby had hydrocephalus, which was water on the brain, that she had still born born, but it was probably a similar scenario to what happened with Nicholas, right? That high drops started and all of the fluid started filling up in in the baby. so she had, you know, she had that but i it wasn't I don't know.

Megan (12:46.902)

Mm.

Pauline (12:47.703)

Mm.

Megan (12:53.783)

Yeah.

Pauline (13:06.916)

Yeah.

Lauren Benetos (13:12.924)

it's hard to relate to someone that's not a contemporary that lost a child in a miscarriage and and she my mom wasn't really like a talker or warm kind of person that I could be like and cry to about this so a friend of mine had I'm sorry not a friend of mine my sister in law was a member of this this or website at the time called Long Island families and and it started out as long island weddings and and then everybody got married and then they joined

joined Long Island Families and they had all these different message boards. And you know, there was one for pregnancy loss. But there was also one for infertility. So I joined these message boards and that's how I met these lovely ladies. We were on these infertility message boards and we were all just screen names at the time. But I met them all through

Long Island families and that's how I met Girly as gerty as well. And and I believe they were all members of like Long Island Weddings. I was not, but I b no you guys. All right, fair enough. but you know, we all met kind of like and and dark.

Pauline (14:17.113)

Me neither.

Gerty (14:18.481)

Yeah.

Megan (14:19.438)

Yeah.

Pauline (14:20.655)

Yeah.

I came f I came for the infertility board. In fact

Gerty (14:25.345)

I was laughing, infidelity.

Megan (14:25.415)

You are a one hit wonder.

Lauren Benetos (14:27.31)

That and that's kinda where we all bonded. Yeah. Yes, yes. So we all bonded there and that's, you know, how I met Pauline and Gerty.

Pauline (14:31.481)

Yeah. Yeah.

Pauline (14:37.357)

Yeah. And did you know Gerty when Rogan came?

Lauren Benetos (14:43.61)

yes, I know. Gerty was a screen name for me. we all mutually know Donna V, who had also lost a child.

so I sort of bonded with her and she kinda knew you all. So, you know, when when Gerty lost Rogan, I knew you guys, but only as sort of screen names. And you know, at the time I do remember like going and like Donna Bazoulis and I go I said the whole name went to went to Stony Broad Yeah we went to Stony Brook

Pauline (15:15.097)

Yeah.

Pauline (15:24.911)

Okay, she's not my patient, so

Lauren Benetos (15:29.046)

brought Rogan a little brick at the time, you know, but I didn't know Gerty well, right? But I knew of her story, right? And and Donna and I really connected with Gerty on that story. but then it probably wasn't until Gerty and I were both pregnant with our sons that we really second sons that we really connected.

Pauline (15:52.729)

Second second sons.

Pauline (15:58.8)

Yeah. So I met Gerty before you, Lauren. So really she should be going out with me and not you, but that's okay.

Gerty (16:08.434)

Yeah.

Lauren Benetos (16:08.526)

Probably.

Pauline (16:11.651)

But Gerty, you worked hard to to make Rogan

Gerty (16:16.133)

I I spent three or four years, I think it was close to four, doing infertility treatments. I started out doing IUIs and then I moved on to IVF. I I think I did IUIs for about a year, and then I moved on to IVF and I was doing in vitro for three or four years. Sometimes they would be positive.

then I would miscarry something, but you know, it was early on, so it wasn't really considered, you know, anything. And then I got pregnant with Rogan and, you know, it was like, finally, you know, the miracle pregnancy it's been how many transfers and, you know, the whole the whole nine yards. and I was

everything was fine, everything was normal. And one night I was going to the bathroom and I felt something weird and I called my doctor's emergency number and he was like, Meet me at the hospital. I told him what was going on. I felt like pressure in my cervical canal. And I went to the hospital and they took one look and they were like, Your cervix opened up, your bag of water is gone into your cervical canal.

So we're gonna put you on transverse bed rest, see if we can get everything to go back. And if it goes back, we'll stitch up the cervix. And you know, much like Lauren in the and I it wasn't as long, I was twenty four weeks pregnant at the time. but much like Lauren, they were like, if we can get everything back, we'll be good. You know, we'll just keep you on bed rest for the next couple of weeks. We'll give the baby, you know, steroid injections because he wasn't viable. I would have to keep him until

twenty six weeks for him to be viable. so I lasted a week on transverse bed rest where they had me like on an angle with my head down. Yeah, head down, feet up for a week. couldn't get up, like in the hospital, had to use, you know, like they had a a bed pan and bladder pan, sponge baths, the whole thing. So we were just about at a week and I remember the doctor coming in, he's like, I can't believe you did this. Like everything's moving back.

Pauline (18:23.339)

In the hospital.

Gerty (18:38.747)

Everything looking good. He's like, if we can just make it like a couple more days, we'll stitch up the cervix and everything will be good. And I was like, great. And then that night my water broke. And within of I would say three or four hours of my water breaking, I became septic. And my I spiked a fever and they had to put me on medication and they had to induce labor and I had to give birth to him.

So and knowing he wasn't viable. Like they had a team come in and explain to me that he wasn't gonna be viable, that they could try, but it was basically a losing effort, you know, y d at twenty four weeks, you know. I think now at twenty four weeks they can, but eighteen years ago it really wasn't a thing that they could do. They were basically like, You have to get to twenty five weeks. That's when we know we can you know, there's a chance of survival. At twenty four there's not. So

So yeah, so I had to deliver him and you know,

Pauline (19:39.201)

And he was born alive.

Gerty (19:41.98)

He was born alive. He was breathing for it was like a minute, a little over a minute he was breathing. And I didn't hold him because I was in a state. My husband did. My husband was like, No, I wanna hold him. I saw him, like they showed him to me. He was tiny, so tiny. And and and then my my doctor was also he's also like a

He's got, you know, certification as a deacon. So he asked me if I wanted to have him baptized and I said, Yeah. So he baptized him in front of me so that, you know, we had that out of the way in our own brains and and yeah, and then he passed. So it was and he probably passed within the time that he was doing the baptism. But Yeah, and that was it was like a harrowing experience because like Lauren said, you everything's fine.

And then all of a sudden this happens and just throws you you know, it's like it's like a terrible curveball. Yeah, 'cause you spent all this time trying to get pregnant and finally it happened and you know, this is what this is the outcome. So it took us a long time to even say that we would try again.

Pauline (20:48.291)

Yeah.

Pauline (21:03.127)

What what support did you want at that time? Like and what what was helpful?

Gerty (21:11.689)

for me, I was in a very weird place. I wanted nothing. I wanted nothing to do with anybody. I wanted when we buried him, I my family wanted me like they wanted me to come back to their house with that. And I was like, no, I just want to go home. And then I got home and I was like, I don't wanna be here and you know, like nothing not there. I I couldn't even say what would have made me happy or made me feel better.

Because I was just in such a state that nothing made me like feel better or, you know, and and I actually that was we talked about it for a couple of months and then we decided to try again because I was like at this point, nothing's I don't feel any happiness anyway, so we may as well give it a try. And at least if we can do this again and maybe be successful, it'll make me feel better.

Pauline (22:10.423)

Yeah.

Megan (22:14.478)

When people that I work with have experienced a loss like this or even other losses, maybe not as far along. I think one of the really difficult things is that people will say things to them, well meaning things, but really hurtful. Like, don't worry.

Pauline (22:35.523)

You know the words she's gonna say, don't you?

Megan (22:38.53)

Don't worry, you'll be a mom one day.

Lauren Benetos (22:40.92)

You you can have another baby.

Megan (22:42.968)

Yeah. You can always have another baby, yeah.

Gerty (22:43.751)

You can always have another one, yes.

oddly, somebody said to me when I did get pregnant again, somebody said to me, Well, you should just name him Rogan and I was blown away. Like, no. Just no. Why would I do something like that?

Megan (23:02.594)

Yeah. Yeah.

Lauren Benetos (23:07.064)

Rogan existed. Why would you why why would you name your child Rogan? You already had Rogan.

Pauline (23:07.385)

Yeah.

Megan (23:08.984)

Yeah.

Gerty (23:12.399)

I Right. I just it when when when this person said it to me, I was just like no. Like that he ha he was his own person. And and I would never do that. There's so many reasons for that to be a no. It you know, it's not even just one reason. There's so but I I remember that was one of the things that blew me away. It was like, if you have another one you can always name it Rogan or when I did get pregnant, you could name him Rogan and I was like, Yeah, no.

Megan (23:41.615)

That's one of the questions that I mean, the statements that I'm like I I feel like you don't have to be that empathetic to realize that that would be a horrible thing to say. But and this is somebody that you probably knew, knew you in your life. Yeah. That is wild to me.

Gerty (23:51.462)

Mm-hmm.

Gerty (23:55.015)

Yes, yes.

Yeah, yeah.

Pauline (24:00.442)

People say the darnedest things.

Gerty (24:02.663)

Yes they do.

Lauren Benetos (24:04.288)

I had it's so funny 'cause I had like the opposite sort of thing, 'cause I'm like to my husband, Nicholas is a junior and him and I had the conversation, are we sure we wanna name him Nicholas because this is your junior and we don't at the time we're like we don't know if he's gonna make it or not. Right? And this is going to be like, are we sure that this is what we wanna do? Because if he doesn't make it, right, like that's it. We can't name another child, Nicholas, after you, right? Like

Gerty (24:33.512)

Right.

Lauren Benetos (24:34.673)

Yeah, so that's that was it was like sorta like almost like an opposite conversation that Nick and I had about like, are we sure this is what we wanna do?

Megan (24:43.224)

Yeah.

Gerty (24:43.282)

Yeah.

Pauline (24:45.345)

And Nicholas and Rogan are part of your story. They're part of your family. They're not just like this thing that happened, right? So how how how do you how do you honor them still twenty years later? What what does that look like when somebody listening hears that they're still part of your family?

Gerty (24:54.726)

one hundred percent. Yeah.

Gerty (25:08.295)

Well, I know and I think Lauren does this too. I go to the cemetery for his birthday. I generally go for Christmas. you know, I I honor him that way. I talk about him. You know, I will tell people about him. I you know, will talk about the fact that when I lost my baby, when you know, like when Rogan passed or when you know, and if somebody wants to know the story, I will tell them. Like I don't you know, and obviously my son, Colin

does know about him, you know, and is aware of him and, you know, will sometimes ask questions about what happened or, you know, how old would he be or you know, stuff like that. And I also think about what would he have been like as compared to, you know, Colin. Like what would he have been like? Better, worse, different, you know, personality wise.

Pauline (26:02.521)

Definitely different. There's no better or worse when it's your children, right? We love them all equally.

Gerty (26:05.417)

Right. We love them all.

Megan (26:09.676)

I mean it depends on the day. Sometimes you could give them a rating on the day.

Lauren Benetos (26:13.828)

Yeah.

Pauline (26:16.793)

Yeah.

Gerty (26:17.073)

I'm pretty sure my mother had favorites.

Lauren Benetos (26:20.514)

Yeah.

Pauline (26:20.727)

Yeah. We're just not allowed to admit that out loud.

Gerty (26:24.105)

Right.

Pauline (26:25.423)

But we use his name, right? Like so many times we hear people like, I don't know if I should use his name, or if people ask me how many kids I have, do I say one? Do I say two? Like how did you navigate those things?

Gerty (26:27.752)

Yes.

Lauren Benetos (26:36.708)

Very much.

Pauline (26:42.071)

And again, this is twenty years ago. So things have changed. People are a little bit more I I might be biased because like this is the world I live and breathe, but I think people are a little bit more progressive now talking about pregnancy loss and infant loss in a way that like twenty years ago it was very like Lauren said, like your mom didn't talk about that as a part of her story.

Gerty (27:10.349)

I know for me, you know, when you go to the doctor and they ask you how many children you have, I say two. And when they ask you how many pregnancies you have, I say two. You know, like I don't you know, if you ask me further, I will say I have one living, one not living, but I say two.

Megan (27:34.563)

There's a comedian that did a show about child loss. Very funny. But he says, like, one of the most difficult things is people ask how many children he has, and he would say three, and he said, but one passed away. And then he has to spend the next 30 minutes consoling them because they don't know how to handle it. And so it always complicated.

the conversation. He's like, Do I have an extra half hour while I'm in the middle of Target to tell this person that I lost my baby? You know, like, I don't know.

Lauren Benetos (28:02.98)

Yeah.

Lauren Benetos (28:14.756)

For me it's situational. It depends. Right? If I'm at the OBGYN, three, right? How many pregnancy losses have I had? How many times have you been pregnant? It's my favorite question. It's like eleven. Right? Like that's my favorite question. A lot. Right?

Gerty (28:28.605)

Yeah, yeah.

Lauren Benetos (28:33.934)

How many, you know, and how many surgeries have you had? The surgery one for me, you know, I've had three C-sections, right? But I only have two living children. So it's it's a conversation, right? but like I said, it's situational. If I'm going to the dentist, do I say I have three kids? No. If I'm going to the OBGYN, do I say I had three kids? 100%. So for me it just depends who and where. If I ran into somebody at Target, am I saying three? No.

No, I'm saying two. Just because it's easier.

Pauline (29:05.183)

Right. Do you th do you think that means that like you don't think about Nicholas or you don't care about him?

Lauren Benetos (29:14.446)

I used to have a guilt about it. but at this point for me it's just, you know, he he turned twenty one this year. you kind of have to work through that, right? And sort of come to terms with I didn't forget Nicholas and and me talking like and and

it doesn't change the situation or how I feel and it doesn't define what Nicholas was or what he meant to me and in this world, right? And I do come across like I know people have guilt. They don't want to say his name and like I I like I want you to say his name, right? Like I want I want and especially like when it first happened, right? I wanted to make sure that nobody forgot. That was what I was afraid of, that people were gonna forget. Right? Because, you know, you were talking to Gerty like what did

Megan (30:04.27)

Mm-hmm.

Lauren Benetos (30:10.468)

she do like after like for me like I spent like on my maternity leave after Nicholas because I still took eight weeks I had a C section. I spent Yeah.

Megan (30:21.332)

And only eight weeks. Like, you lost your child and you only got eight weeks off of work, which is

Lauren Benetos (30:26.978)

Yep, yep. And I I would spend it at the cemetery. I just sat on the dirt in the cemetery. Just sat there all day. That's all I wanted to do. I didn't wanna see anyone, I didn't want to talk to anyone, I didn't want to go out anywhere. That's what I wanted to do. I wanted to be with my baby and I wanted to figure out how I was gonna be a mother to this baby and what that looked like.

And it was making sure, right, that all of the different things was his name on the headstone. I have to go, you know, like make sure there's flowers there. I have to make sure that it's cleaned up over there. I have to make sure, you know, that I put something in the paper about him. You know, i it was like all of these things on I can't be a traditional mother to this baby, so how am I being his mother? So that that's what it was for me. It was it was a difficult navigation.

Pauline (31:12.163)

Yeah.

Megan (31:20.462)

How did your family members respond, maybe not immediately, but like a year after or moving forward? Was it hard for them to

Pauline (31:31.895)

I guess I want to even hear about like immediately. Like were your family members like Lauren, you're there's something wrong with you, you can't sit in the dirt in the cemetery, like

Lauren Benetos (31:41.039)

Well yes, and even my husband and I had a lot of problems because we it it caused us a lot of marital problems. I was resentful of the way he kind of like felt to me through my eyes that he kinda just moved on and I wasn't there. And he had two live children.

prior to us having Nicholas from a previous relationship. So I would blame him to say, because, you know, like those other kids are here, Nicholas didn't matter, right? Like you have a different view of what Nicholas was because of that. Right. So there was definitely a lot of marital strain over that, for sure. in in the immediate and

Pauline (32:08.428)

Yeah.

Pauline (32:34.669)

Yes, she kept him around. He's still here.

Lauren Benetos (32:37.58)

Yes, he is still here and he's the father of my other two children. So but you know, it was it was we had a we had a really, really tough time and and to me if if you and your marriage can survive something like this, it's like you can survive just about anything. Because this was, you know Yeah.

Pauline (32:57.731)

Yeah. And people we we tell families all the time people grieve in different ways. And also often one partner's trying to protect the other partner. And so they perceive it as like not caring, but maybe that person's just trying to like not upset you anymore. And it's it's that that grief is complicated. It is not black and white.

Gerty (33:16.893)

Mm-hmm.

Lauren Benetos (33:18.009)

Yeah.

Lauren Benetos (33:23.96)

Yeah. Yeah, for sure. But it was definitely

Pauline (33:26.615)

And everybody grieves differently. Some people go to the cemetery every day, some people don't go at all.

Lauren Benetos (33:32.034)

Yep. Yeah. Yeah, 'cause he had to go back to work, right? So I was off and like I I don't I don't wanna do anything else with myself but do this. So and everybody, yeah, like you said, everybody keep copes with and to me again like it was I would be with him anyway, right? Like this is me being with him, this is where I can be with him.

Megan (33:52.462)

Mm.

Pauline (33:53.923)

That brought you comfort.

Megan (33:58.541)

And then how did the two of your relationship come to really grow?

Gerty (34:07.611)

So yeah, we were we were both in that we were both in that online group and she got pregnant I wanna say she got her and I both got pregnant right around the same time because Colin was originally due in August and Christopher was due in October. November. Okay. So so we got pregnant sort of around the same time, but

Lauren Benetos (34:07.958)

I was saying when you were on bed rest, Gerty.

Pauline (34:30.265)

June.

Lauren Benetos (34:31.118)

November, November.

Gerty (34:37.551)

When I found out I was pregnant, they told me straight up that I had to go on bed rest at thirteen weeks. And it was strict bed rest. I had to, you know, I could shower twice a day, they were putting a stitch in my cervix, the whole nine yards. So so she actually would come over all the time and, you know, bring me forbidden objects like like Slurpees.

Lauren Benetos (35:00.986)

Like shakes and slurpees and things that she wasn't supposed to be having.

Pauline (35:06.433)

In one of those many cups behind you?

Gerty (35:06.63)

Yeah, no, they didn't exist.

Megan (35:08.808)

Ha ha ha.

Lauren Benetos (35:09.292)

Yeah yeah but no I don't care those. No no

Megan (35:12.406)

Ha ha ha ha.

Gerty (35:13.789)

Yeah, so so she would come over and just hang out with me and we would just sit there and talk and kinda compare stories and you know, like and that I think that's really how we ended up bonding is, you know, both of us were going through the same I mean, sh obviously she didn't have to do bed rest, but both of us were going through the same not not on the same level. And, you know, we just kinda like clicked in that respect and you know, and then

Lauren Benetos (35:31.992)

Well I did, but not at the same time.

Pauline (35:41.539)

Yeah. 'Cause 'cause

Megan (35:42.05)

You didn't have to explain yourselves, you Yeah.

Gerty (35:44.764)

Right, right. And and I think Lauren was very accepting about how I grieved Rogan and I was accepting about like like there was no judgment from either one of us. It wasn't like, you didn't go to the cemetery every day or you you know you didn't plant stuff in your backyard for your kid. Yeah, whatever like whatever things that we might have done differently.

We d there was no judgment. It was just kinda like this is what I did and this is what I did and you know, like the the  how we kinda went through it, you know, or or got through it, sort of bonded us, but also just the fact that we were carrying children around the same time.

Pauline (36:24.375)

Yeah. And pregnancy after a loss, right? Like being pregnant after a loss is not like just being pregnant.

Lauren Benetos (36:24.93)

Yeah, and then I went on bed and rest I already had like Yeah.

Gerty (36:32.775)

Right. And for Lauren, it took her a little while to get pregnant and she went through a few different doctors while I was going back to trying again because sh remember she had lost Nicholas in what was it, two thousand five? Yeah. And I didn't get pregnant with Rogan. I didn't lose Rogan until two thousand and eight. So

Lauren Benetos (36:34.136)

No.

Lauren Benetos (36:51.492)

Yeah.

Gerty (36:59.293)

So there was a three year gap and she had been trying to get pregnant all that time, while I had also been trying to get pregnant. and we were going to different doctors and we were comparing stories about that. So there was a  a lot of that and then all of a sudden we both ended up, you know, pregnant around the same time.

Pauline (37:17.879)

And that's the pregnancy Lauren that started as twins and ended as Christopher.

Lauren Benetos (37:24.248)

Yes, Christopher.

Lauren Benetos (37:28.59)

Yes. Yes. yeah, Christopher was a twin.

again, like Gerty mentioned, right? It took me four years to get pregnant with many trials and tribulations. As we know, like I mentioned, I have that balanced translocation. So it was a really difficult, arduous process because only two out of sixteen embryos are gonna be healthy. so you know, that that's not great odds. So I ended up doing, you know, probably three rounds of IVF.

but countless countless IUIs just you know Gerty as Gerty did as well just a million but yeah I mean and Christopher you know we did a a a a transfer transfered three got pregnant with two one of them somehow

kept still reproducing and I guess because it was, you know, a a transfer, and they, you know, implanted that embryo, it stuck around for sixteen weeks. until it just, you know

Pauline (38:42.253)

Yeah, so so one so Christopher did not have the balance translocation and

Lauren Benetos (38:48.378)

In fact, Christopher has normal chromosomes. Christopher doesn't even have a balanced translocation. He got my normal because you know you have two sets of chromosomes, one set of my chromosomes are translocated, the other set of my chromosomes are not. So in my in Christopher and my daughter actually, they both got my normal chromosome. Each of those chromosomes. Was unbalanced. Unbalanced, yep. So

Pauline (39:09.399)

Yeah, and the tw the twin that you lost had the balance.

Lauren Benetos (39:17.218)

you know, she just stopped growing. was not that's how we kinda learned she was not growing at the same rate. and, you know, it was it was difficult, right? Because again, you're overjoyed to be pregnant. I'm having twins, right? You're you're overjoyed about it and then sixteen weeks in, not twins.

So I was really excited, boy and a girl, like proverbial lottery, I got it, I'm done. but didn't turn out that way. But I have my beautiful son here now, so

Pauline (39:51.96)

Yeah. And you had each other to really support you through that because like I said, being pregnant after having a loss is is just not the same, right? There's like do I do I want to do I want to tell people I'm pregnant with twins? Do I like admit that I'm having a baby? Like do I believe that I'm having a baby?

Megan (40:01.686)

It's not, yeah.

Lauren Benetos (40:02.456)

Yeah.

Gerty (40:11.281)

You're always waiting you're always waiting for the other shoe. I still feel that way in some part of me. You're always waiting for the other shoe to drop. Like I when Like when I got pregnant with Colin, I was waiting for something to happen. When I got past 27 weeks, I was waiting for something to happen. When I you know, every every stage, like I went when he was born, I

Megan (40:20.302)

Mm.

Lauren Benetos (40:36.986)

I could check on it constantly because it's a week.

Gerty (40:37.031)

I would check on him constantly because I was just waiting for something to happen. I'm like something's gonna happen, something something bad's gonna happen. Like you're constantly in that there's it's not a comfort zone. There it's not like, I'm pregnant again. Yay! You know, like it it's it's yeah, I didn't do his we didn't do his room until like I was thirty weeks pregnant. We didn't name him until I was like

Megan (40:43.425)

Mm. Yeah.

Pauline (40:54.063)

It's danger zone.

Lauren Benetos (40:56.056)

Yeah.

Gerty (41:06.781)

thirty week like until we knew he would be viable. Then we decided to like really talk about names. Like meanwhile Rogan it was like, Whoa, we're gonna do the room this way and we're we're gonna name we already had the name page like everything was done way like as soon as we found out. And with Colin it was more of a very cautious, you know, step by step.

Megan (41:28.686)

I mean I know people that won't even announce their pregnancy. They're like if people figure it out, they figure it out. Like it's understandable.

Pauline (41:35.983)

Yeah.

Gerty (41:37.382)

I had to tell people because I got a new job and I had to tell the job that I was have gonna have to go on bed rest, like that I wanted the job, but I had to go on bed rest like six weeks into the job. So that was the only reason I told people was because I mean like aside from really close friends, but like actually telling people I like, Yeah, I accepted this job, but you know, I had to tell them that I am gonna be out for six months, like six weeks after I start.

Megan (41:46.318)

Mm.

Pauline (42:05.913)

That's that's a hard conversation.

Lauren Benetos (42:06.124)

I I was the same way. Yeah, yeah. I I was the same way as Gerty, right? My my son was four days old before he had a name. I and and the other thing was I had another scare, right? I had I had when Christopher had a placental abruption and I thought I was gonna lose him at thirty five weeks.

I went to the hospital with a placenta abruption and and you know they they I remember sitting there and they wouldn't tell me anything like if he was okay or not. They wouldn't tell me anything until my doctor got there. So it was just like like like you're saying, like that other shoe drop, like there was constantly something and I I remember talking to somebody who had kids and I was like, it's gonna be so great when when he's finally here because then I can relax. And they just laughed at me, they're like, ha ha, you think you're gonna relax when he's here? You're not

Pauline (42:57.603)

That might have been me because that might have been me.

Lauren Benetos (42:59.32)

Yeah, it might have been you. Might have been you. Who knows? You know, like no you know, you're never gonna relax. But I just remember all the time just being constantly terrified. Terrified. And you know, with good reason up until thirty five weeks. I I I was thirty five weeks and they're like, placenta abruption, went into labor, like and you know, it was it was a scary moment. It was a scary moment. But, you know, I mean

Pauline (43:24.686)

Yeah.

Lauren Benetos (43:28.324)

God bless now. And you know, IVF, all those treatments, all the crazy. Sarah, spontaneous pregnancy.

Pauline (43:28.461)

And yet you did it again after that.

Lauren Benetos (43:39.027)

I was I had gone to the fertility doctor a few months before we were talking about we were gonna plan for spring for me to, you know, do a transfer of my little frosties as we called them, right? The frozen embryos. I had some frozen embryos, we were gonna transfer those in the spring and pregnant my daughter just spontaneously. My my infertility doctor was like, I I I don't I don't know. I I I I don't know why you are the way you are.

Gerty (44:05.895)

Yeah.

Pauline (44:07.567)

You you are I think you said to me that he said you were like a novel or a bestseller.

Lauren Benetos (44:14.306)

Yeah, he said you're your very own show, we should take your show on the road. Yes.

Megan (44:17.877)

Yeah.

Gerty (44:17.928)

Yeah.

Pauline (44:18.255)

Yeah. And like the kicker, and I know we're almost out of time, but like Sarah is that miracle, like literally the miracle child that was conceived spontaneously and saved, literally saved your life.

Lauren Benetos (44:36.398)

Yes. Yes, because of her. had the C section again. And you know when you do cis section, they're moving all that stuff around in there, right? And I was having a lot of trouble, lots of pain. Went to the doctor a couple times, I couldn't figure it out. They're telling me it's my uterus shrinking. Finally I went back. They said I had like an intussusception in my colon. they had to remove a portion of my colon. Turns out it's stage two colon cancer.

I was thirty six years old. Thirty-eight years old. Thirty-eight year olds don't get colon cancer. It was it was wild. Yes, back then no. It's on the rise now, but yeah, fifteen years ago it was not really a thing.

Megan (45:09.388)

Well on the rise, but back then, no, yeah. Ugh.

Megan (45:18.04)

And they didn't t yeah, they would have never tested you for it without yeah.

Lauren Benetos (45:21.802)

I had no symptoms until after the C-section. My gynecologist loves to tell everybody, he doesn't get to tell people a lot that he saved a life and he insists he saved mine by doing my C-section. He's like, I don't get to say it a lot, so I'm saying it with you.

Megan (45:37.411)

Mm.

Pauline (45:37.923)

And he 'cause he saw it during the C section.

Lauren Benetos (45:40.099)

No, no, he didn't see it, but he did the C section and moved all the stuff around. So if it wasn't for his C section, I would he didn't see nothing. Like we thought I just had an we didn't we thought it was my uterus shrinking. Well I didn't, but the doctors thought it was my uterus shrinking, the doctors thought I had an interseception and you know, they took out a section of my colon and tested it and there was a tumor. So I would have  I had not a single symptom until after I had my C section.

Pauline (45:44.863)

Mm.

Lauren Benetos (46:08.738)

And again, my daughter was a spontaneous birth, so it was just wild.

Pauline (46:15.609)

Yeah. So

Lauren Benetos (46:19.15)

That's why I could take my show on the road.

Megan (46:21.068)

Yeah. You'd never it'd be like

Pauline (46:21.549)

You could take the show on the road and why Sarah deserves all the cool clothes.

Gerty (46:21.693)

Yeah.

Megan (46:26.306)

Like y you'd never d you'd never you'd never believe it. It's like one of those it's like if I tell the story you're not gonna believe it. Yeah.

Lauren Benetos (46:26.372)

Yeah.

Lauren Benetos (46:31.576)

Yeah, what a

Gerty (46:34.45)

Right.

Pauline (46:35.843)

Yeah, we've had a couple of those stories on. Like we believe these stories because we've met Lauren's and other people along the way. And And I I I have to like have have so much gratitude for whoever it was that developed that online community back then because we don't live near each other. Well, you guys do apparently.

Gerty (47:01.753)

Yeah.

Pauline (47:03.597)

Right. We don't live nearby each other. We probably would have never met. And it brought it brought us together. You you both got to have that support. We learned so much about infertility. Like we put names like  the frosties. Like, I know what you're talking about. But like to even I'm gonna say, like, the generation coming up today, like they don't have that same sort of like online.

Lauren Benetos (47:03.962)

Yeah.

Lauren Benetos (47:25.028)

Yeah.

Pauline (47:32.473)

Which surprises me, but it's not the same as what we had.

Gerty (47:32.869)

I

Gerty (47:37.018)

I did the like I said before, I did IUIs for a year and I probably would have just kept on going because I didn't know any better. And And the people in the group, like people in that talk group, were like, they were, you need to go see somebody else. You need to go interview different doctors. This is not working. I you know, the the peep the I went there for a year and then I went somewhere else. And it turned out like when I went to a different doctor and he did test.

My tubes were completely blocked. So I have PCOS, but my tubes were completely blocked. And I remember the second doctor being like, They could have done IUIs for ten years with you and you never would have gotten pregnant because nothing was going up into your uterus. Everything's blocked off. So yeah, that group was definitely a lifesaver in a lot of ways. And also just the support.

Megan (48:17.582)

Mm.

Pauline (48:31.023)

Yeah. So that that if you if you are going through any part of this, infertility, pregnancy loss, being pregnant after loss, like find your people because having that support, it really i it helps. It makes a difference. I'll be right there. And

Gerty (48:42.493)

Yeah.

Lauren Benetos (48:53.806)

With that

Gerty (48:54.791)

With that

Pauline (48:56.206)

Yeah.

Megan (48:56.224)

And we'll put we'll put links actually for support in where people can find support i in the show notes and everything. But

Pauline (49:03.651)

Yeah. So if you appreciate these stories, there's more where that came from. So come back for our next episode. Thank you, Gerty and Lauren.

Megan (49:14.488)

Thank you.

Lauren Benetos (49:14.744)

Thank you.

Pauline (49:17.466)

See you later.