Julie Taub (00:00)

I was very excited and just thought, like, this is a miracle, you know, this must be a very special child to be able to get through all of this and like make it. My husband was devastated and very scared. And I I forgot to mention that during my my first labor and the C section, that my uterus actually fused with the placent with one of their placentas, and I almost lost my uterus, and the

doctor said like I might have to take it or else you'll bleed out. so there was a danger for me as well. So my husband was very scared.

Pauline (00:52)

Hello and welcome back. I'm Pauline Walfisch here with my faithful co-host, Megan Nelson. Megan, you want to introduce our guest today?

Megan (01:01)

Yes, hi, thank you, Pauline. So today we have Julie Taub. She's a licensed clinical psychologist in private practice in New York State. And she previously worked at Zucker Hillside Hospital on Long Island in outpatient psychiatry and women's mental health. Some of her research involves eating disorders and self-acceptance. But today she's here to talk about her own lived experience, unexpected experience in.

And building a family. Julie, welcome. We're so thankful and grateful to have you on our on our podcast today.

Julie Taub (01:33)

I am so

thrilled to be here. Thank you so much.

Pauline (01:36)

I first met Dr. Julie Taub, who is

a psychologist in New York State, when we were working together at Zucker Hillside Hospital. And our paths briefly crossed. And I I th if I recall correctly, I think part of how our paths crossed had to do with your family building experiences, if I remember

You were on inpatient, pregnant, maternity leave, and then came back to outpatient. Is do I have that

Julie Taub (02:04)

Right.

Pauline (02:05)

right?

Julie Taub (02:05)

Right. Right. And actually I you know, worked under you for a couple of years and was trying to build more family and was talking to you about it. you

Pauline (02:15)

Yeah, yeah.

Julie Taub (02:16)

were talking about how that's kind of your specialty. So it was really, you know, like kind of a cool coincidence.

Pauline (02:22)

Yeah,

that happened to more people than I will admit on air.

Julie Taub (02:30)

Yeah.

Pauline (02:31)

but you know, infertility affects one in six people. And if you're have a staff of thirty people in childbearing age, there were you were not the only one. So

Julie Taub (02:41)

Yeah, yeah.

Pauline (02:42)

and I'm sure half of them would admit it themselves and maybe will be on our podcast or maybe already have, but

Julie Taub (02:49)

I look forward

to hearing about it.

Pauline (02:51)

Yeah, yeah.

So we were talking earlier about how, you know, we've sort of because of social media have stayed connected and it's been really fun for me to watch Julie's family grow and knowing sort of where they came from and how far you have come. So when we were

Julie Taub (03:11)

Right.

Pauline (03:12)

putting together our podcast list, I was like, I wonder if she would share a little bit of

what you've been through.

Julie Taub (03:19)

Yeah.

Pauline (03:19)

And for the people listening, I really want to emphasize that as therapists, when people come into our room in our therapist hat, we don't always want to hear the whole story in the first session, right? Sometimes stories hold a lot of pain. And as therapists, we want to be able to help you to be able to talk about it.

without having a lot of emotion. but here on a podcast we have 20-30 minutes and we want to hear the whole thing. So we are very careful to make sure that the people that we invite feel good about sharing their story. We know that Dr. Taub has done her own work on this. You're gonna see she can talk about it without falling apart, or maybe like maybe a fall apart a little. It's okay.

we have realistic expectations, right? therapy doesn't make hard things suddenly not hard anymore. but to be able to talk about it without totally reliving it. So you feel okay talking about this today?

Julie Taub (04:26)

absolutely. I've gone through a long journey to be accepting of this parenthood journey. being in therapy myself, and really speaking about it, you know, in me multiple social situations with friends. So yes, I I I'm comfortable.

Pauline (04:43)

Great. And you've been living this for how long? They're your oldest are

Julie Taub (04:49)

So my eldest are going to be thirteen. I had fertility issues

Pauline (04:55)

Welcome to the club.

Julie Taub (04:56)

and so I probably started my journey about like

sixteen years ago really.

I'm one of four. My mom had no problem getting pregnant. I waited till after I was done with grad school and graduated and became a psychologist and then I felt like I was ready to be a mom and lo and behold, it wasn't working. And two IVF rounds later and a bunch of tests that were very uncomfortable later, I finally implanted two embryos and and became pregnant with twins.

Pauline (05:25)

super

exciting I imagine at the time.

Julie Taub (05:28)

It was very exciting. and I was thrilled, you know. both my husband and I have twins in both sides of the family. We just thought it would be like great and two for one, you know, so fun. what I didn't know is that there are real risks and they say it, it it's it's not quite it doesn't quite ring true until you really experience it. And no.

Pauline (05:48)

Cause it's never gonna happen to me. These are just the risks

that they have to tell you, but like I'm not gonna have that problem.

Julie Taub (05:55)

Right,

I'm not gonna have that problem. It's gonna be okay. They'll be in the NICU for a couple of weeks and everything will be fine. but I had some real issues and gave birth at twenty nine weeks was an emergency C section, my water broke early, it was very, very devastating, how early I was. And, you know, my boys were born very fragile. they were two and a half pounds, maybe not even.

And both were on respirators for a while. my one son was there for 90 days and another was there for 150 days, and he came home on oxygen and a gastric tube and was on that for a year and a half plus.

Pauline (06:36)

I know I doing the math, but like just to say it out loud, that means like you give birth to two babies and you go home with one.

Julie Taub (06:47)

Yeah, Right.

Megan (06:48)

And you go home months later.

this is almost I mean, five months or so for one of your children was spent in office.

Pauline (06:57)

Before the second one came home.

Julie Taub (06:59)

Yeah.

Megan (06:59)

And that is

I'm a twin. I don't know if I told

you that in the

Julie Taub (07:03)

yeah no, thank gosh.

Megan (07:04)

And so but I don't I don't remember the NICU, but my parents do, you know, and it

Julie Taub (07:08)

Yeah.

Megan (07:09)

there's a visceral reaction when you talk about things like not holding your baby for days or weeks and you

Julie Taub (07:15)

Yeah.

Megan (07:16)

know having to watch them be hooked up to all of this equipment.

For me, I had a baby in the NICU not nearly as long, but I had a hard time with being called mommy by nursing staff instead of by my name. I'm like, I just became a mom. My name is Megan. You

Julie Taub (07:34)

Yeah.

Megan (07:34)

know, but it makes total sense. But all of these weird things that you don't anticipate or think about.

Julie Taub (07:42)

Yeah. I think like it was very difficult to, you know, be called mom where the I couldn't hold my child. sometimes you couldn't touch them, because it would be like hard on the it would just be too much stimulation for them. the only thing that I could do was pump. And that like that was that was all you could do and that's what all I did all day long.

Pauline (08:03)

That was your mu that was

the extent of mothering.

Julie Taub (08:05)

That was it. And I was terrible at pumping because first of all my body was not ready. and secondly it just like kept not producing, you know. I was watching these other moms like come out with bags that were this big and like I did this, you know. it was really very stressful.

Megan (08:21)

I

remember like I my child was full term and I was pumping and there was a mom next to me because you sit in these weird chairs next to someone. It's very strange. And they had a twenty six weaker that was further along and she was telling me, Yeah, I've only got this and I was like, Can I give wanting to like give her some. I'm like, this isn't there's no fairness in this story. Yeah.

Julie Taub (08:43)

Yeah.

Pauline (08:44)

And two and a half pounds is like the palm of your hands.

Julie Taub (08:48)

Yeah,

they were tiny and very fragile. And you know, especially one of them really had difficulty breathing and like so you would watch him like contract with and it was very scary.

Megan (08:59)

What was it like for your support system while you guys were in the NICU? Did you feel like you had a support system? Did people know what to say? What was that like for you?

Julie Taub (09:09)

to a degree I feel like we had a support system. I think like our family tried to be there as much as possible, you know, tried to visit the boys and everything like that. We were very worried about like infection which I think they didn't quite understand so much, we would, you know, go to a birthday party for like a friend's kid

they would ask about you and you'd be like, yes, I'm a parent, but they are not here, and it was like it was kind of like heart wrenching, you know, kind of socializing in general, even if people were really trying their best to be there,

Pauline (09:42)

Yeah, yeah. And I said earlier you went home with one baby, but that's right. For three months you went home with no

Julie Taub (09:49)

No.

Pauline (09:49)

baby.

Julie Taub (09:50)

Yeah. No. I mean we spent New Year's on our own. You know, it was just very odd. it was a very like hard time, but you get through it as best you can. And yeah. Here I am.

Pauline (10:02)

And you did, 'cause you're here today talking about it.

Megan (10:02)

So then you

Julie Taub (10:06)

Here I am.

Megan (10:05)

Yeah. And then your babies came home and

as much as we'd like to think it's smooth sailing after that,

Pauline (10:13)

What was that like?

Julie Taub (10:14)

So

You you I ran a NICU at home. so my one son actually was physically healthy. He ended up like eating and things like that. And then my other son was very fragile and came home on the gastric tube and the oxygen. any time we transferred him, we had to like transfer him to like a little oxygen tank and make sure there was enough oxygen and we keep it, you know.

my husband and I would take turns staying up all night watching him to make sure that the breathing was like that the that the oxygen was on correctly, that he wasn't uncomfortable, that the gastric tube and the feedings were going okay. because like

you he could not breathe without it. so it was really very hard and that was probably for like six months to a year. And although we did get nursing care, you know, that nursing care was tapered. You know, they and you had to take care of your own child and like that's part of that's part of life. That's that's it.

Megan (11:16)

You become trained

medical professional in this one area, essentially. Like yeah.

Julie Taub (11:19)

Yeah. Yeah. And you really

can't couldn't go out if if the nurse wasn't there, you know, and so once it started tapered, and y you didn't want to, it was kind of hard.

Pauline (11:29)

Yeah. And even though you are a doctor Taub, you are a psychologist,

like that does not

Julie Taub (11:34)

Yeah.

Pauline (11:34)

include training in tubes and feeding tubes and all of the medical stuff that you had to learn.

Julie Taub (11:37)

No. No. I was

Right. No, I was not medically trained at all. and my husband, who's a an attorney, was certainly not, this was all new to us. It was a very kind of rough introduction to to parenting, to be honest.

Megan (11:53)

Were you

also working? Or did you have to take like a parental leave or

Julie Taub (11:58)

Yeah,

so I was working on the inpatient unit then and I had to take a medical leave. and I had just gotten that job. and I remember being like terrified, you know, the of the repercussions of it.

in fact I went back to work after my one son came home. and it was it 'cause I didn't know when the other one was coming home and it was really, you know, very challenging to then

go home, take care of one son, and then go to the NICU and spend some time and pump. and you know, on the inpatient unit, there there was not a pumping room at that time for me. So like I would have an apron and I'd pump and write and be writing the notes. The psychiatrist would come in as like the machine is going and like I have an apron on and we would just talk like that about our pay my patients, you know.

Megan (12:47)

So you were going from working, pumping, wearing an apron in front of other professionals, other patients? Like what happened?

How did you manage that?

Julie Taub (12:57)

Pa not patients, but there

would be a back

room in which I would do my notes and kind of you know, talk with the the nurses.

Julie Taub (13:05)

so I yeah, I wasn't producing enough, surprisingly, you know, and I was running myself ragged trying to fill all my roles, you know.

Megan (13:15)

And

having preemies, they'll say, and it's true, but like giving them breast milk is the healthiest thing that you can do because of their undeveloped

Megan (13:22)

So after you get through your children are both home. Where is where does the story go then? You have these two children, they end up becoming

Stable.

Julie Taub (13:36)

Mm.

so eventually after, my k boys' first year of life, they have their birthday, and that is the first day that

My son Benny gets off oxygen for a couple of hours a day and we slowly start to taper him off. we're just starting to get in a groove with him. And at about 17 months, we finally are able to, he's stable enough, we are able to remove his gastric tube.

And so we move remove his gastric tube, and I'm at the hospital, and I get a phone call from my mom who's watching my other son, Eli, and she says, you know, there's something really not right with Eli. and I had been noticing that he wasn't talking as much as he initially was a couple of months ago. I kept on like trying to push that out of my mind. I talked to the pediatrician.

They

said sometimes that happens when they start moving more, things like that. I got home and he really he really kind of had a glazed look on his face. He did not kind of respond to us the way that he used to. And we got him evaluated and he had autism.

Pauline (14:45)

Hm.

Julie Taub (14:45)

diagnosed with autism. to be honest, even though I'm a psychologist, you know, you know what autism is.

You I worked with kids with autism. I did a summer program. to me it felt at the time like a death sentence. it was really it was like you really like lost a bit,

Megan (15:03)

Well everything that you

imagine for your child now is disorganized there's so much uncertainty.

Pauline (15:10)

Right at the

part where you're like, We're finally getting

Julie Taub (15:14)

Yeah.

Pauline (15:15)

normal.

Julie Taub (15:16)

Right. And it just felt like we couldn't get a break, you know? and then we went into full

applied behavioral analysis mode where we you know tried to get which is like the the gold standard of therapy for kids with autism to try to get them to acclimate a little bit more to society and you know learn how to to function within society and we did everything that we could and we're still working

on it. now he's almost thirteen and he's a wonderful, sweet, loving, kind boy, and we love and accept him. And it's just we we were hoping to get him to a higher, I don't want to say higher level, but I we were hoping to get him more acclimated into society than he was able to do.

Megan (16:03)

Well, I think having

a twin right there, there's always gonna be this comparison. You

Julie Taub (16:09)

Yeah.

Megan (16:09)

know, like it's inevitable when you have somebody exactly your age that is born at the same time and I they're

Julie Taub (16:13)

Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Megan (16:15)

not identical twins, I don't believe, right? But

Julie Taub (16:17)

No. No, the fraternal yeah.

Megan (16:20)

but there's this comparison, you can't help it. And I I imagine that that has at least been in the past, if not still, really difficult.

Julie Taub (16:28)

Right. You know, and when they were younger, they were more similar. And as they've grown and developed, the gap between both of them and their kind of you know mental age levels has just widened so much and although we all live in the same house and they love each other and we definitely have family moments. I mean, my one son is off playing soccer with his friends and my other son

stays home and needs help doing some basic, you know, activities of daily living. So

Pauline (16:56)

Yeah.

One of my best friends has identical twins, both with autism

Julie Taub (17:04)

Yeah.

Pauline (17:04)

and both with very different levels of functioning. So one's in college and driving, and the other one, like you said, is, you know, home or goes to a day program. And, they're just different, even though they're identical twins and they're both awesome.

but it's just a different it's different life. It's not the it's not the one that you imagined when you got the news that your IVF transfer worked and you were pregnant with twins.

Julie Taub (17:29)

Right. No, it I was hoping that they would be best friends, you know? And they

Pauline (17:33)

Yeah.

Julie Taub (17:34)

are to a degree. It's

Megan (17:35)

Mm-hmm.

Julie Taub (17:36)

just it's just not the same, you know.

Pauline (17:38)

Yeah.

Megan (17:39)

that happens too like in families

Julie Taub (17:42)

That yes.

Megan (17:42)

how many times do we hear parents who are like, I wanna have my kids close

together, they'll be best friends

Julie Taub (17:48)

Yes. I mean you can have the hope that everyone's gonna be copysthetic.

Megan (17:52)

and the reality of it is is like that's

that's not what usually happens.

Julie Taub (17:56)

Yeah.

Pauline (17:57)

Not

yeah.

Julie Taub (17:58)

Yeah.

Pauline (17:59)

But but but your story just continues to deliver you not what you were expecting.

Julie Taub (18:05)

Right. So after all of this we still wanted

To build our family. As I said, I'm one of four. I always wanted to have a bigger family, and so did my husband. And so we decided that we were going to go for a third. However, we decided that actually the fertility specialist told me something's wrong with my uterus. that, you know, if I was going to have another child, that would be best to find a surrogate.

and so we, you know, went through the process, did an agency, found this wonderful woman to be our surrogate. she had her own family.

Pauline (18:41)

And just to add a little piece of information,

so when you say surrogate, this is somebody who carries the pregnancy, but it is your embryo, your egg,

Julie Taub (18:52)

Right.

Pauline (18:52)

your husband's sperm. Okay.

Julie Taub (18:53)

Mm-hmm. Right, exactly.

this was our child placed in another person, another wonderful person. it worked. actually it took two rounds also because nothing just comes. and we

had Armia, I

Went to a music festival with my husband and some friends We saw Foo Fighters, it was really fun, and I was not feeling well I thought I had heat stroke came home and you know thought about it, took a pregnancy test, because I had never gotten naturally pregnant ever in my life and all

of the years of trying ever. and I was pregnant. so Mia at the time was you know three months in gestation and I was pregnant.

Pauline (19:41)

So this was

at the same time that your surrogate was pregnant.

Julie Taub (19:45)

Yes. Yeah.

Megan (19:47)

So we have to break this down a little bit because I have heard this happening three times and I don't hear that many surrogacy stories.

and I do hear this with adoption, you know, you finalize an adoption and then you get pregnant. Do you think that there is some phenomenon that to this? Like what is I don't know

Julie Taub (20:12)

Yeah, I mean there

Megan (20:13)

Yeah.

Julie Taub (20:13)

has to be, right? I mean, so I haven't met someone with the same experience. However, like I cannot tell you every time I tell this story, someone knows someone who knows someone that this happened to, you know?

Pauline (20:25)

And

this is what fuels all the all all my infertility clients and I've been there hate it when people are like, just stop trying and you'll get pregnant. Like, it doesn't work that way.

Megan (20:33)

Right. Yeah.

Julie Taub (20:33)

Yes. Yes.

Right.

Right. And in fact, my dad, you know, said, like, wouldn't it be fun if you got pregnant at the same time? I'm like, that's never gonna happen, dad. Like, I can't get pregnant. And and I did.

Pauline (20:46)

he put it out there.

Julie Taub (20:48)

And I did, you know. and actually the same thing happened to my grandmother. she adopted and then got pregnant with my mom. so there is perhaps something to relaxing a little bit.

It not worrying so much, just enjoying your time together,

Megan (21:05)

the stress is

reduced, the inflammation might be reduced in the body. Who knows?

but you're right, Pauline. Like it's not do this and it will happen. For sure.

Julie Taub (21:13)

Right. Right. Absolutely.

Pauline (21:14)

Right. Yeah.

Julie Taub (21:16)

And like I do I do always wonder whether, being pregnant before kind of prepped my body for being pregnant again. and also the hormones that I took for to get Mia, and the the egg for Mia, like whether that kind of like affected me in some way. I I I I have no idea, but like those were always things that I was thinking perhaps happened, you know.

Pauline (21:37)

Yeah. So you must

I I'm just imagining like, Holy shit, like what is

Julie Taub (21:43)

Yeah.

Pauline (21:44)

happening? What am I gonna do? And also I'm I'm remembering you saying like the doctors told you you should not get pregnant.

Julie Taub (21:51)

So to be honest,

I was very excited and just thought, like, this is a miracle, you know, this must be a very special child to be able to get through all of this and like make it. My husband was devastated and very scared. And I I forgot to mention that during my my first labor and the C section, that my uterus actually fused with the placent with one of their placentas, and I almost lost my uterus, and the

doctor said like I might have to take it or else you'll bleed out. so there was a danger for me as well. So my husband was very scared. And

Megan (22:29)

Yeah, he's afraid you're gonna lose your life and then

yeah.

Julie Taub (22:32)

right and

leave him with you know all of these children. and and

Pauline (22:37)

And no wife.

Julie Taub (22:38)

Right. And also, when Eli got diagnosed with autism, the diagnostician, you know, did tell us that perhaps the you know trauma from the the premature birth might have triggered this So there were multiple factors that was actually it wasn't just like, you know, a fairy tale. It was it was very complicated, it was very nuanced.

Pauline (23:01)

so if Mia was three months gestation and you had just figured out, they're p I guess could like just a month apart, two months apart, like

Julie Taub (23:11)

Yeah.

Yeah. So they're two and a half months apart. They would have been three months apart. but COVID came and I got pre-eclampsia and I had COVID while I was pregnant.

Megan (23:22)

Really the encyclopedia of like maternal

health challenges that might happen, you know, but are rare. They're all of these are

Julie Taub (23:29)

Mm-hmm. I mean, it it right.

Megan (23:33)

rare things that happen to happen to you.

Julie Taub (23:36)

To

me.

Pauline (23:37)

just gonna

in case anybody's not following along, right? So Julie is now like very pregnant with pre-eclampsia, COVID, and a two-month old.

Julie Taub (23:50)

Right. Who also got COVID? Yeah.

Pauline (23:53)

With COVID a two month old with COVID

Julie Taub (23:55)

Yeah.

Megan (23:55)

And then

you have seven year olds twins.

Julie Taub (23:59)

I right.

I have s I have seven year old boys. One has severe autism.

Megan (24:02)

One has severe autism.

Julie Taub (24:04)

we don't have any help because it's COVID and everyone has jump ship.

Pauline (24:08)

Look how angry

Megan's face is.

Julie Taub (24:12)

Yeah, I mean, you know, my

Megan (24:14)

Yeah.

Julie Taub (24:14)

mom came to help, but there was only, you know, we did have her, and that was lovely. We were so lucky to have her.

Pauline (24:19)

Yeah, everybody was so scared.

Julie Taub (24:21)

But it was very scary. It was a very scary time. Yeah, so I delivered by myself because I had COVID and so did my husband.

There were three people in the room, the nurse, the anesthesiologist, and and the doctor.

Megan (24:36)

Did you have

a cesarean if you don't mind sharing?

Julie Taub (24:38)

I had

a I had an emergency C section because I had pre-eclampsia. also forgot. She was growth restricted. So she was early, but she was also growth restricted, which means that she was not growing the amount that a the typical baby grows. so she was born at three pounds five ounces. Right. Right.

Pauline (24:59)

holy deja vu PTSD trauma flashbacks,

all of it.

Julie Taub (25:05)

And they put the oxygen on her for the first night and I was really beside myself and I couldn't go to see her because I had COVID.

Megan (25:15)

that I don't

know if people really understand that special hell that of not holding your newborn baby. It is horrendous and

Pauline (25:24)

and I I'm just gonna keep saying it. You're sick, you have COVID, and you're two months postpartum with a new baby, even though you didn't birth that baby, like all of the emotions and adjustments and all of the new mom stuff is still nice and primed.

Julie Taub (25:46)

Right, absolutely. And I actually didn't get to be in the physical room when my daughter Mia was born via the surrogate, because I was on bed rest. because Audrey, my the child that I was carrying was growth restricted. So my husband and my mother in law went for the birth. I witnessed it on

Pauline (26:06)

Mm my goodness.

Julie Taub (26:07)

Facebook and then and then Dan witnessed the birth of our daughter Audrey on on not Facebook, on FaceTime.

Pauline (26:14)

Yeah, not not the family building that you imagined when like two people get married, have sex and have babies.

Megan (26:21)

You're like, Hey, I got a great idea. Let's have four kids.

Pauline (26:26)

And let's

do it every way possible.

Julie Taub (26:31)

Right. Every way possible with every complication there is. Yeah. Yeah.

Megan (26:35)

no. So

Audrey was in the NICU for a little bit as well.

Julie Taub (26:42)

So she

was in the NICU it was only eighteen days, you know? And it really like for me it was like, that's that's a breeze, you know, eighteen days. She was on oxygen for just a day.

She really was just there to gain weight. And I was I I that made me on top of the moon, you know,

and so I didn't I didn't get to meet her until day eight

that was the 14 days after COVID at the time. So I met her on day eight. Yeah. Yeah.

Megan (27:11)

What was that like?

having a daughter born through surrogacy and then giving birth to another daughter. And yet there's this like period of time. I mean, how did that feel?

Julie Taub (27:22)

It just

I mean, honestly, it was it was so surreal that I don't think I like ever really processed the moment Mia came home, I mean it was very odd, you know. she comes home with my husband and my mother-in-law, and I'm pregnant, cherishing this beautiful baby girl. it was just surreal. and then, you know, then actually having another child, going home, for a couple of days after my c-section.

to my, two and a half months old at the time, and then going back to the NICU to pump and try to breastfeed. You know, it just, it was, I mean, there's kind of no feeling to describe that, you know.

Megan (28:02)

Yeah.

And then after they kind of caught up, did it feel like having twins again or

Julie Taub (28:10)

It felt like having twins.

I would like to say that this was the experience of motherhood that you always dreamed of. Except that you're still watching your child and making sure that they make their developmental milestones because you're concerned that your child might have autism. Because once you have one child with autism, the likelihood of having another is is much higher. It's a it's it's a risk you take.

I really enjoyed having them. They they play, they started playing together, smiling at each other. my daughter via surrogate was just so much more physically capable than my more fragile, growth restricted daughter as well. And so you were always comparing, but they were two months apart and one was a premi. So it was beautiful and joyous and stressful and you know, aggravating

Pauline (28:59)

Yeah. Yeah. So did it make a difference that like one set was girls, one set was a boys?

Julie Taub (29:06)

not like initially, I don't think, you know, I mean, although they were really much more fun to dress up.

Pauline (29:12)

We are both boy moms and like okay, you get a pair of sneakers,

like

Julie Taub (29:17)

The little

doll dresses I can't. You guys, I'm sorry you did miss out because

every month for we I put them on like the little blanket with the month thing, you know, and they'd have like a new dress every time. And like it was that was fun. That was that

Megan (29:30)

so cute.

Julie Taub (29:32)

part was fun. That's that entertained me for COVID for sure. I'd come up with like some photo sessions for sure.

Pauline (29:38)

Yeah.

Megan (29:38)

So good.

I know.

Pauline (29:39)

So

I'm gonna derail us for like one second and then I promise to get us back. But

Julie Taub (29:44)

Yeah.

Pauline (29:45)

as therapists, it's always so hard that we don't get to show the world how good our patients are doing because of confidentiality. We can't be like, look at the great work I'm doing as a therapist, right? Like

Julie Taub (29:58)

Yeah.

Pauline (29:59)

the plastic surgeons can be like, hey, look at these breasts I augmented. Aren't you proud of me? And as therapists,

Julie Taub (30:02)

Yes, yes. Mm-hmm.

Pauline (30:05)

we are like in secret.

Julie Taub (30:07)

Yeah.

Pauline (30:07)

So

I don't know who your therapist is, but shout out to her. She's doing

a great job. that, you know, just that you can talk about

Julie Taub (30:14)

I can't wait to show her this. She's gonna be very excited.

Megan (30:18)

No, we'll get her a little applaudison.

Pauline (30:19)

this and share this story without falling apart and crying and still being able to say, like, it was beautiful and it was hard. that is the work that we get to do because this if if you're listening and you're not

somebody who works with a lot of birthing people, like maybe you came across one of these scenarios, but to experience all of these different things in family building is is is pretty special.

Julie Taub (30:49)

No I'm one unique lady.

Megan (30:51)

Yeah, the hits keep coming. The hits keep coming, yeah.

So with that, like what is your family like now?

Julie Taub (31:01)

know, we live in the suburbs. you know, I have very

Two sets of very different twins basically.

we go to my son's soccer games. We've just started making friends with my, girls' parents' friends because they just, you know, finished kindergarten. They're six years apart. we have, you know, some of a special needs community. So it's kind of there's this disjointed thing, but like still like a real community in which we, cheer each other on, cheer each other's.

Kids on for their sport or their dance recital, things like that, I think my favorite time of day is when we all come together and you know, watch we decide on a movie to watch for a little bit before bed. the kids all sit down and and and watch something together. I have like a video of them doing like a little pillow fight in which like we've taught Eli to be very calm and gentle with the girls, and they they're just like touching each other.

With the pillows, smiling and laughing as if like they're really going at it, so there's a lot of love, there's a lot of dancing, there's a lot of music, there's a lot of laughter. listen, we absolutely have our hard times. raising a child with autism is not easy. We really went through some dark areas, particularly pre-pubescent times.

times with him that

were rough, you know, and we we still found a way to, keep a typical family in some ways, you know.

Megan (32:27)

Someone listening might be have gone through one of these things and maybe it's the really it's the beginning. Either their child is in the NICU or their son was just diagnosed with autism or they have a preemie and they are concerned for their future. What helped you get through one, any, all of these moments?

Julie Taub (32:47)

I think there are like multiple things. I can't, pinpoint one thing. I think being in therapy, and having that outlet to, cry, grieve, you know, process, everything that happened was one of the key things. I also think like my husband and I are aligned in our view of like life.

and I think that was really important, like to have that open communication with him, and making sure that even when things were chaotic, to have time with him. I'm a big gym rat. go whenever I get a chance and love it. and you know, I think going back to work was also helpful

even though it is listening to others talk about their problems, in some ways it's it's kind of a nice rest from your own, first of all. But secondly, it's just getting your brain to think in a different way. and using, the skills that you have and reminding you yourself of who you are, also in addition to a mom, a wife,

Pauline (33:47)

Yeah, the intersectional identities of of motherhood, right? don't stop being all the different parts of yourself. So sometimes it's nice to be able to just be in that identity for a little bit.

Julie Taub (34:01)

Absolutely. And you know, everyone kind of copes with these things differently. I have been an open book with my friends. You know, when I'm struggling, they know I'm struggling. when I'm doing well, they know I'm doing well. whenever there's, you know, an issue that's going on in the family, people know about it because I will tell them. And that's just been my way. and I've found that, you know, people surprise you and really come out of the wood.

work when you need them. And that's been nice. Yeah.

Pauline (34:27)

Yeah.

Megan (34:30)

And then they know

Pauline (34:30)

Yeah.

Megan (34:30)

they can do that with you too, when they're when they're struggling.

Julie Taub (34:32)

Yeah.

Pauline (34:33)

Yeah. So what's I'm sure that you have many,

but what's the what's one thing that no mom told you that you learned along the way yourself?

Julie Taub (34:47)

I think like, I mean, not to be flippant, but parenthood is no joke. there are so many wonderful things that happen. There are so many highs, there's so much joy in it. but I really didn't know like how scary and low and dark it could be at times. I think if someone told me I I still wouldn't process it, but but really like Right,

Pauline (35:08)

Cause it won't happen to me.

Julie Taub (35:10)

exactly. And like even I think

Think even if you didn't go through everything that I went through, parenthood, you're being in charge of another life is like there are some times that it is very trying and challenging. and it's really hard. and you know, and it's still a blessing. And I wouldn't have a fifth, but you know, yeah.

Megan (35:31)

But there's that duality. Right,

Pauline (35:33)

Yeah.

The highs are

Megan (35:34)

that it exists.

Pauline (35:34)

high, the lows are low.

And then at some point there's like just exist, just the middle.

Julie Taub (35:42)

Right, right. And and you have to treasure those, they come and go, really treasure those times because like they're very special and that's why you're doing it,

Pauline (35:50)

Yeah.

Megan (35:51)

I don't know about

you, but we always have the my husband and I will share a look when it's like the kids are being sweet with each other and we didn't ask them to anymore. We can't say anything.

Julie Taub (35:56)

Yes. The stars have aligned.

Megan (36:01)

It's good right now. Yeah.

Pauline (36:03)

Don't blink.

Julie Taub (36:04)

Absolutely.

Pauline (36:05)

Well, thank you so much for sharing your story. And I am gonna continue to enjoy watching your family grow and it's been lovely to see you and reconnect. It's been a long time and

Julie Taub (36:19)

Yes.

Pauline (36:19)

also to hear how how amazing they are all doing.

Julie Taub (36:25)

Yeah. thanks so much for having me. This was like this was really fun. Yeah.

Megan (36:29)

Thank you

so much. And major props to you. what a super mom. Seriously. I know

it doesn't necessarily feel like that all the time, but major. Like

Julie Taub (36:40)

thank you so much.

I I really appreciate that. Yeah.

Pauline (36:41)

Yeah. You are doing the thing.

Julie Taub (36:45)

I am doing the thing.

Pauline (36:47)

Times four.

Julie Taub (36:49)

Thank you so much. Bye.