Pauline (00:41)

Hello and welcome back. I'm Pauline Walfisch and I am here with my faithful and also striped co-host, Megan Nelson.

Megan (00:53)

Hi everybody,

we are coming to you with a lot of stripes today. ⁓

Pauline (00:59)

totally coincidental.

Megan (01:02)

So today we're so lucky to have our colleague on. We have Carolyn Crocker. She is a licensed mental health counselor and PMHC with a degree in mental health counseling from Manhattan College. She has experience working with adolescents and families of diverse backgrounds within academic and mental health settings. She's currently a therapist at Helping Hand Psychotherapy where she frequently uses bibliotherapy in her work, using books, poetry,

readings in her session to promote healing and personal growth. So today she's here to talk about her experience as an adult child of parents with infertility. So Carolyn, thank you for joining us. Welcome.

Carolyn Crocker (01:46)

Thanks for having me, you know, my first podcast appearance, is fun and exciting.

Pauline (01:52)

Woohoo!

We love it when we get to be people's first.

Megan (01:57)

good like we don't bite so we're

Pauline (02:00)

Yeah.

So Carolyn, it is great to have you here today, but not necessarily in your role as a therapist, right? you're here in today's podcast that we have a whole series for Infertility Awareness Month, which I've declared. If you've listened to the other podcasts, I apparently made it up, but we're going with it. But you are here because you're somebody who has some lived experience with infertility, but not in the

Carolyn Crocker (02:15)

Thank

Pauline (02:28)

way that we're used to really talking about, right? like, tell us your connection to infertility.

Carolyn Crocker (02:37)

so i am an only child and i've phrased this for a very long time that i am an only child like not by choice and at a young age my parents like explained to me that they struggled with infertility and i was that like miracle baby if you will and they both like in trying to have me and after having me went through

Pauline (02:58)

you

Carolyn Crocker (03:02)

know, infertility and IVF and all of those things. And I was explained at a very young age of like, this is the cards that we were dealt, like you're an only child and this is how it's gonna be. And I was always very in tune and like aware of that. And I was ⁓ okay, like that's cool. Like that's our household. Like, all right, it's the three of us, you know?

Pauline (03:24)

Yeah, so it's something that's sort of like always been part of your identity and the identity of your family.

Carolyn Crocker (03:31)

It has, I, you know, so I would always like ask for a sibling, like Christmas, my birthday, I would ask for a brother, I never wanted a sister, I always wanted a little brother. And it was always just like redirected, like I don't know if Santa can bring that, or like maybe something else for your birthday. And then I remember like at a young, I don't remember how old I was, but I was like,

maybe in like kindergarten or first grade and I had like an easel board and I wrote like and I really wanted like a brother.

kids my friends were like saying like my mom's having a baby or like I knew my friends were like the youngest and they had siblings and I was like I really like I want one now and I wrote on it like can I have a brother like check yes or no and I was like nervous to approach it without some sort of like reasoning of like it's not my birthday or a holiday and I that's when I remember my mom like talking to me and like not like in so many technical terms of like IVF and injections and

and that but saying of like you know like you know mommy's like done have you know can't have any more kids but we have you and we love you so much and like i know it's this person is having you know a baby brother or sister but like that's just not gonna that's not us right now but like we love you so much and you have like little cousins and like you know who are like your siblings and that i remember was kind of like okay that was like the sit down con

conversation of like that's like that's it. You know, like it's just going to be you.

Megan (05:05)

Did you learn maybe after that that they had tried to have another child after you? Or when did you understand that?

Carolyn Crocker (05:13)

Um, I learned like much old, like when I was older, I'd like ask my mom, like, oh, like, you know, once learning the technical stuff, we'll call it like infertility. and they said they did. When I was in kindergarten, my, they added a second floor to my house. Like my parents bought it was just like a one level.

And they bought it and like when they added it on like it's my bedroom my parents bedroom and then there was like a pantry closet or a linen closet And we each had walk-in closets and they built it with the potential Intention of like if we have a second kid We can bump the closet and bump the bump the linen closet bump our like clothes closets and that could be a second bedroom like if needed down the road, but

Pauline (06:00)

Thank you.

Carolyn Crocker (06:01)

You know, so it was always like it was there in the back of their mind, but you know, but that was something I didn't find out till like much later.

Pauline (06:10)

Yeah. I remember when I was going through secondary infertility and my son, I still remember like the bathroom that we were in, he was standing on the toilet, I was helping him brush his teeth and he was like, can I have a brother or sister for Christmas? And I was like, I'm not sure, like, I don't think so. Like, how about a dog? Like, and he was like, no, no thanks, I don't want a dog, I'll just take a brother sister. And I was like, um.

maybe a bigger house. I might be able to do something else, but like, I'm pretty, there's no promises on this brother or sister thing. And it like broke my heart, right? Because it was the one thing like I wanted to, and you also don't want to disappoint your kid.

Carolyn Crocker (06:49)

I was like, and-

And that's like looking back.

Yeah, and looking back now as an adult, like I could only imagine like my niece like not knowing as a kid, but like how hard that was for my mom, like hearing that. And it's like my parents and like having I'm sure she did have to talk to my dad like, hey, I gotta like break the news, however you want to phrase it to her. Like we gotta talk to her about this.

Cause I was questioning and like not in a bad way, can only imagine how hard that is to like vocal, like, you know, vocalize in general, but now vocalize to your own kid of like, this is our situation.

Megan (07:27)

Yeah, like that it might be the actual final ending even. You you might have decided and I can imagine but telling your kid yeah, this isn't going, that's not going to happen. I mean how that dream is kind of like done.

Pauline (07:43)

Yeah.

Yeah. So as a parent, it's so hard to disappoint your child. Or at least that was the feeling that I had. Imagine your mom probably had some similar feelings. But the cool thing about having you here today is you get to tell us what that's like for you now, maybe then, but also so many years later.

when you look back at that experience, how'd she do?

Carolyn Crocker (08:13)

she, understood I remember like, was just like, okay, like I didn't question it. didn't, I was just like, okay, cool. And like, I have, younger cousins who live blocks away that I've always considered like my siblings, but it was also, and this is nothing to do with my parents. So like, I just, grew up in a very small town

One, I didn't realize until I was like an adult that like, you go to middle schools and there's like more than one like fourth grade class. Like, no, I was with the same 20 something kids from kindergarten to eighth grade. And I was the only child that I knew. And so that's what I'm saying. It has nothing to do with my parents. they framed and discussed everything with me, but I didn't meet another only child until I was in high school. Then I was like, oh, okay.

Pauline (08:48)

Thank

Not.

So you were different, let's say.

Carolyn Crocker (09:03)

Yeah, not like different bad, but just different, you know?

Pauline (09:07)

Did other kids treat you differently? Did you have different experiences?

Carolyn Crocker (09:14)

No,

my, no, my best friend is, well, they're sisters, but they're a household of five kids. And I would always be like, can I come to your house? And I'm like, this is so fun. I'm not exaggerating where I have walked in on them trying to learn how to ride a unicycle in their house, five kids running around. And then they would come, but they'd be like, I wanna go to your house, cause it's quiet.

I want to go to your house because you have your own space, you have your own room.

I want to go to your house because like we can watch whatever we want on TV. It's not now you're fighting with however many people in a house four other siblings and parents. And this was, before no one had iPads or iPhones or things like that, with one TV in the living room that's what you watched. so looking back on those things, I was like, yeah, but this was so fun. there was always something going on you had all these do all these things and they're like, yeah, but it's also

sometimes you do want that quiet and that privacy that I sometimes like took for granted.

Megan (10:08)

And you want to make sure you

can get enough dinner that not everybody is going to grab it. Get to eat your food. Yeah.

Pauline (10:18)

Yeah,

it's that the grass is always greener on the other side, right?

Carolyn Crocker (10:22)

Okay.

Megan (10:23)

How did you feel after you knew all this information? What was it like for you growing up as an only child?

Carolyn Crocker (10:30)

⁓ it was like, like, again, like a lot of things I took for granted, like my, did a lot of sports growing up. I, I swam at a very young age, all through college. played softball. So my parents were at everything.

for me, like super involved, which sometimes was a bit much, when I didn't want them super involved, but recognizing that, again, two sides of the same coin, I had my parents' undivided attention.

where I never, they were at everything. They came to every award, like sports event, practice. Like my mom drove our carpools like all the time, you know, like it was never, you know, ⁓ ask, can your mom take us here? And my mom was like, yeah, no problem. I'll

I never felt like I was missing or lacking or something wasn't there. I was just like, okay, yeah, I'm an only child. It really wasn't much until I was an adult. And again, not that I was lacking as an adult, that I had the insight to look back and be like, oh wow, things were kind of different.

Megan (11:34)

How are you with sharing as an adult? We always...

Carolyn Crocker (11:36)

I'm a good share. I like,

Pauline (11:38)

as an adult or how about as a kid?

Carolyn Crocker (11:41)

I share better than some of my friends who do have siblings and it's so funny. I've gotten the comment, like, you never know your only child. And I'm like, that's such a stereotype, but like, I get it. You know, I am a I am a good share about most things.

Megan (11:56)

Well, it's so funny because that is the stereotype, if you don't have siblings, you're not going to know how to share. but your parents also had time to explain things to you. So.

Carolyn Crocker (12:04)

Yeah, I was also like

in school where I had a teacher if I didn't share toys or whatever, some school markers like that was going to correct me anyway. It wasn't, you know, I wasn't this you're an only child. And I was like, considered an outcast or anything. It was like, no, I like grew up playing with my friends, rode my bikes, did whatever, you know,

It never was like a taboo thing at all really as a kid of like, oh.

Pauline (12:28)

Yeah,

I like that. So it was like part of your story, but it wasn't who you are. And sometimes when people are going through infertility, infertility becomes so consuming that it feels like their whole identity, but it's just a piece of the story of who they are. And so that was your experience also.

Megan and I just came from an annual infertility conference and there was a lot of talk about, a little bit different, but donor-conceived children and how the research really shows that kids do better when they know their origin story and tell early and tell often so that the kids just sort of grow up knowing that this is part of their story. And you mentioned that you have always known from a very

young age that this was part of your story. Not necessarily like being donor conceived because that's not that's not your story but knowing that infertility was part of how you came to be in this world. How old do you think you were when you first knew about this that story?

Carolyn Crocker (13:33)

I would maybe first or second grade and again, not in such technical terms it was like not shelter, but I guess kind of just secluded. I'm like, okay, I thought it was like just me. this is just our house. And I still speak about when I was in fourth grade, I had a teacher and

when we were learning like geography and she was like, oh, you write if the answer is Kansas and you put a heart, you get an extra point. And we were all like, oh, why? And she explained that she struggled with infertility and that's where they adopted her son. And I came home and I was like, mom,

it's not and that was the first instance where I was like it kind of broadened my horizons it's not just like under my roof that this happens and I came home and my mom will still talk about this because next parent teacher conference she cried to my teacher and told her that carolyn came home and told me her story and like I just want to tell you my story and they cried together during parent teacher conference and then the next day at school my teacher gave me a big hug and was like

Pauline (14:21)

you

Carolyn Crocker (14:37)

I'm so happy you told mom and I'm so happy I told you and like, my parents probably broke it down to me in like first or second grade. But then like I remember fourth grade, But that was the first time I got that like, wow, it's not just us.

Megan (14:50)

You know, that's so interesting because I had not really thought about this until just hearing you say this. I'm a child of infertility treatment. And I think it was a little different because my older sister is adopted. then technology caught up. I'm older than you. So there was no IVF when I was born. But I...

People knew our story because of our family dynamic, I guess, and adopted, then a couple of years, and then twins. But I didn't know anybody else that was, at least spoke about infertility or being a product of infertility. We did, but we kind of felt like that was just us.

Pauline (15:36)

Yeah. I mean, so many people, even today in 2026, don't know anybody else who is going through this. And we hear all the time, and I hear it all the time. I'm sure you guys do too, I feel so alone. I don't know anybody else who's going through this. I didn't know this was a thing. and every time I hear that, I'm like, how?

But unless it's something that you're paying attention to, it's just not something that people talk about. It's not like, hi, I'm Pauline. I had secondary infertility. How are you today? It's just not something that people talk about. And so it can make you feel really alone and isolated. that's

Megan (16:12)

and it's the same tool.

Pauline (16:16)

you know, we say it and hear it all the time. The power of community and like meeting and talking to other people who have shared experiences is so, so valuable.

Megan (16:30)

Sounds like your parents were able to get to a place of having

this big life that we talk about, in our groups and with our clients seeing this big, beautiful life. And it can be so hard to get there because of the journey. it's not just loss. It's not just money. It's so many different things. It's not just family. It's so complex. And also,

They have these big beautiful lives as well. And I love hearing that your parents were able to, and I think a lot of people do, get to a point where you can embrace it and it continues to grow.

Pauline (17:13)

Thank

Carolyn Crocker (17:13)

yeah i you know my mom always said she's like if i could have i have like 50 kids i would and it was just like it got to a point of just acceptance and where we were and my mom

always had the biggest open door policy for anyone. Like she would, I was like, mom, no one eats this. who doesn't? And she's like, oh, well Katie eats that. I'm like, well, Katie doesn't live here. Katie's like my best friend who lives five blocks away. Like open door, anyone can come. Any, you know, the more the merrier, never excluding if I was like, oh, you know, can I have some friends over? But someone asked to bring, she was like, bring them.

Which looking back, if you had multiple siblings, you might not have that, whether it's like we physically don't have the space to have now a playdate of this many kids or the resources or like the snack budget, you know, like looking back on them.

Megan (17:57)

even like her experience,

her experience shifted her, may have shifted her value and just wanting to have kids around, that's really beautiful.

Pauline (18:07)

Carolyn, what was it like for you in high school when you met somebody else who was an only child?

Carolyn Crocker (18:13)

I was like very surprised. was like, oh, and who is one of my best friends now, like still. And I was just like,

Pauline (18:18)

I was gonna say, did

you guys like stick together? I guess you did.

Carolyn Crocker (18:22)

Um, we like

did, but also for like other things, we ended up swimming together wasn't just like a passing thing. I feel like in only children, I feel like in my generation, I'll say it's still a bit rare.

And I always like want to have questions, but I also know I'm like, that's not, you know, and that was also something like in learning this so young that my mom taught me of like, you don't know what people are going through to ask or make comments, you know, like in telling her like, hey, I'm doing this and like she brought up like,

once in a while she would get comments by people you was at your baseball practice. And I said something about, we're so busy. And someone who had multiple children was like, well, you only have one, so you can't be that busy. And she's like, that, you know, that wasn't my choice to only have one kid, I was taught and understood at a very young age of like in that.

perspective of like you don't ask questions, you don't know what people are going through. everyone has things going on behind closed doors.

Pauline (19:19)

So that, her experience taught you a lot of empathy.

Megan (19:24)

How do you feel as an adult being an only child? does that change things for you? I mean, I know I have some only child friends and a few only child people that I work with. And sometimes they talk about, I love being an only child. And now my parents are getting older. Does that happen?

Pauline (19:43)

Be careful here, Megan, because Carolyn's young and her parents are probably about my age. So her parents are probably very young.

Megan (19:48)

I know, they're probably very young. They're probably very young, but I mean just thinking like... very young.

Carolyn Crocker (19:55)

I do hear stories of my friends or people talking about having siblings and I was like that sounds horrible

You know sister used to do this to me or like we used to fight all the time. I'm like happy

that's why I never wanted a sister. I feel like it shaped like a lot of things about myself. Like again, I've learned a lot of things gained a lot of insights. And I know you mentioned before Megan, like my intro to bibliotherapy and I and I don't know if this would change if I had a sibling, but I feel that

being an only child really got me into reading.

and not in a way that like because I was lonely or because no one played with me it was just something I could do by myself like as all parents are like if I asked my parents to can we play a game can we watch a movie they would but there would be times where it's like I'm cooking dinner right now I can't but we can do it after dinner and I would have to entertain myself all right I'll figure something out and I feel that it really got me into it and and it's

It's something I still really do enjoy both like clinically working with clients and just in my own personal day to day, like reading books, you know? but I feel like I have to stress it. it wasn't as a way because I was lonely or bored or whatever. It like, no, I just found something, a hobby, you know?

Pauline (21:09)

and nobody to disturb you.

Megan (21:11)

interrupted you.

Carolyn Crocker (21:11)

Yeah, always quiet, no

one.

Megan (21:13)

Do, did growing up as an only child, has that shaped like what you want for yourself? I mean, of course it does. But I mean, I'm more curious how it has.

Carolyn Crocker (21:19)

It has...

I've always like said when I like Crossed that path into having children not there yet that I would want more than one My fiance's one of four and so hearing stories that sometimes scare. I'm like, I don't know about four but like,

It does, and it does make me think about, as we're talking about this now, my future parenting style. I don't know how I would navigate if I had two kids and they were fighting.

I don't know. I did not have to do it. Like, yeah, like figure it out. how, how to intervene, when to intervene, like differences of like sister final, like two sisters fighting is very different than two brothers might be fighting or a brother and a sister fighting. And so just thinking about like when it comes like, and again, I'm going to have those moments as a parent one day of like, how am I personally going to respond, react, you know, know what to do in that moment.

Megan (21:52)

Figure it out!

Carolyn Crocker (22:18)

And if what I am doing, like, is that right? Is that wrong? Is it, you know?

Pauline (22:23)

And I think that that is a totally normal parenting experience, no matter if you are one of 18 or an only child. We are all building the plane as we fly it.

Megan (22:37)

So when it comes to what you, maybe like what you had to learn or what you're aware of now that you might not have known or thought about before, what would, or if someone was going through this experience, maybe they have a child and they're dealing with secondary infertility and you know, what would you want them to know from the child perspective?

Carolyn Crocker (23:04)

I would want them to know that it's okay to be open.

and discussing it, you know, obviously like at an age appropriate level that they understand, but it doesn't and shouldn't have to be feel something that has to be secretive or shameful. Cause like kids are inquisitive. They're going to ask questions. Like they're going to wonder, you know, and especially just like with things going on around them. And I think just being as open as you can with them and you know, and just sharing what you can, cause I feel like it was really helpful for me knowing.

and then it kind of took a while to guard. I'm not gonna like ask anymore, because that's it. It's like very, you know? And I had a lot of comfort and like contentment of like, okay, this is my family and like, that's that, you know?

Pauline (23:52)

So for parents who are wondering like, is my kid gonna forgive me? Is my kid gonna hate me? Is my kid gonna be a spoiled brat? Are they gonna be okay? Like what does the future child have to say to them?

Carolyn Crocker (24:08)

The future child says that they will be fine. They will be functional, well-adjusted adults, and I think that kind of goes hand in hand with what I said of being open and honest. I never had any resentment because

this is not my family's in our situation and like I never once was like mad at my even when I was like a kid and I was like can you get me a brother for my birthday and she was like I don't know I was never like mad or angry I was just like okay you know and I think that

can be very helpful because at the end, if you're parents of an only child, you're still their parent. You're still gonna be there. You're still gonna love and support them and encourage them in whatever it is that's always gonna be there, whether you have one kid, two kids, 10 kids, those feelings don't ever change or go away.

Pauline (25:04)

Yeah. And the kid's going to be okay.

Carolyn Crocker (25:06)

Yes.

Megan (25:07)

They might even be good readers.

Carolyn Crocker (25:08)

Really good at something, you know.

Megan (25:11)

Well, Carolyn, thank you so much for being here today. I think it's a unique perspective that we don't always talk about or I mean, we think about it from the child, the small child perspective, but we don't get to always talk about it with the child that grew up. So I really appreciate your perspective and sharing it with us.

Carolyn Crocker (25:31)

Thank you for.

Pauline (25:31)

and please tell your

very very young mom very young mom

Megan (25:35)

Young mom, sorry. It wasn't

about her age, it was about, you know,

Pauline (25:40)

that she did a wonderful job.

Carolyn Crocker (25:44)

Yeah, thank you. Well, thank you both for having me and I will definitely pass along the message to her. She's already was asking when it's going to be out and I was like, we got to record it first, you know, before it can be before it can be posted. So she's very excited to tune in and listen.

Megan (25:55)

⁓ no.

Pauline (25:56)

dedicated to all of her efforts.

Megan (26:04)

Thank you, Carolyn. it's great to have you here today.

Carolyn Crocker (26:07)

Thank you.

Pauline (26:08)

Thanks, Carolyn. See y'all later.