Megan (00:00.236)

You know, you can come. Wait, okay, don't you worry.

Regina (00:01.192)

Okay, you guys just leave me where you want me to go.

Pauline (00:06.151)

Welcome back everybody. I am Pauline Walfisch and I am here with my faithful co-host Megan Nelson. Megan, introduce today's guest.

So today we have our guest. name is Regina Gatti. She's a director of talent acquisition for a New York wealth management firm. She's worked as a recruiter and advisor to many notable financial service firms in New York City. She holds a BFA in musical theater and has performed throughout the U.S. on tour and visited 40 plus countries on cruise ships. She's actually our second guest where the

connection is our incredible friend Julie Lubeck, who whoever knows her loves her. day she's gonna be on. And a fun fact is that Regina's husband Cliff and I met when we were 16 in drama camp and then didn't see each other for another 10 or 15 years. So we are here today.

Regina (00:59.554)

Okay.

Pauline (01:00.009)

Bye bye to Julie.

Regina (01:13.905)

Ha ha.

Pauline (01:22.381)

All roads point back to what no mom told you.

Megan (01:25.458)

So today she's here to share some of her story about going through infertility and now having their incredible daughter, Liza, and the pregnancy and all of those things that come with it. So thank you for being here.

Regina (01:26.268)

Ha ha ha!

Pauline (01:28.937)

We're gonna be the new Kevin Bacon game.

Regina (01:32.146)

Yes.

Regina (01:51.336)

Yeah, my pleasure. I'm excited.

Pauline (01:53.129)

Thanks, Regina. So yeah, mean, you know, we got to talk a little bit before we started recording and we want to share that with everybody that getting pregnant was not an easy thing for you and something that you actually put a lot of time and effort into.

Regina (02:11.59)

Yeah, no one tells you that. But yeah, the infertility journey is extensive and different for everyone. yeah, you know, not only is it expensive to do IVF if that is your journey, but you know, it's also really time consuming. There's so many early mornings, there's so many shots, there's so much ordering of medicine and changing things and checking up and...

tests to make sure the fluid goes through the tubes, know, all kinds of things. Totally, it's a lot.

Pauline (02:43.197)

Yeah, it's like a part-time job.

Pauline (02:47.881)

Yeah.

Megan (02:48.696)

We call it the science, being the scientist and the science experiment at the same time. You have to like, cause also you're one of however many other patients and it's like to make sure that you're doing the right thing too. There's a lot of pressure.

Regina (02:52.749)

Yeah.

Regina (03:05.392)

Yeah, and like I was like cool with needles and like, you know, like I was like a pretty chill about it all. Fortunately, I, you know, had a job where I was like somewhat flexible and could do all those things. But, you know, really it's, it's very challenging and really restrictive. And I think, you know, can really be difficult, you know, for people. then you really just never know how many times you're going to have to do it. And, you know, people would say to me, you just need one, which I thought was like a really annoying thing to say.

because like, you just need one, but you might need like a hundred eggs to get to one, you know? And then I, you know, I do really only have one. I did IVF a couple of times. I ended up with two, well, with three embryos. One, we didn't have enough chromosomes, so that was unusable. And then had two other embryos. We had Liza, I was pregnant in 2018, had her in 2019.

And then the pandemic hit when she was about a year old and we were then in North Carolina for two years. And I did fly back to New York to visit my doctor and they had the embryo and I had to do like a three month, like Lupron prep, which was terrible. Basically like puts you into menopause, a cancer drug and you know, before the transfer.

And that did work for Liza, but unfortunately it didn't work for the male embryo that I had and I miscarried soon thereafter in 2021. know, and then...

Pauline (04:33.065)

So you, I'm just gonna pause there for a second, because I don't think a lot of people realize that so many people know whether it's a female or male embryo before you even do a transfer.

Regina (04:48.089)

Yeah, I guess you don't have to know, but they, you know, tested me and my husband both like a full genetic screen. And then once they put the sperm and the egg together and developed the embryo, they did then again, test the embryo for the chromosome and the qualities and everything before they froze it and then prepped my body and then did the transfer.

Um, so yeah, and like I was happy to know, I actually was like, let me have the girl first in case I never do this again. Um, and I'm glad I did cause you know, you know, the boy embryo didn't work out. think you can maybe not know. And I have a friend who they didn't test her embryos before, but then, you know, you're kind of putting yourself in this situation where, know, you might be, they might be transferring embryos that are not viable and you don't know. And so you miscarry and then, you know, it's just like a.

really kind of terrible cycle.

Pauline (05:47.945)

Do you think knowing that you were carrying a girl changed your pregnancy experience in any way?

Regina (05:59.759)

Um, it, you know, it had, lost the baby. It probably would have been harder if I knew it was a boy or a girl. And like, you know, I did lose the boy and I knew it was a boy, but I don't know. Maybe it wasn't, you know, it's just hard in general. Right. So I don't know. I mean, the pregnancy itself, you know, I was thrilled to finally be pregnant after, you know, like four miscarriages. Um, but it was a terrible experience.

Pauline (06:13.961)

Good.

Megan (06:25.358)

How long was your journey from trying to conceive initially to having your baby?

Regina (06:33.926)

I was diagnosed with endometriosis in 2012 and had surgery then. like at that point from that doctor, I pretty much knew I was gonna have difficulty. She had said, you know, if you're thinking about kids, you kind of want to do this sooner than later. And I was, I got married in 2013. So like it wasn't even married at the time. And then I guess by like 20...

14, 15, we like kind of started trying and then by 2018 had the two embryos finally, you know, and had taken a little break in between there and found a new doctor. And then, yeah, and then had her in 2019. And then from the endosurgery, I had had a really like severe hernia that had to be repaired like soon thereafter.

pregnancy it was grotesque and it hurt like a lot.

Pauline (07:32.489)

How does a woman get a hernia? Like, it's not something you hear about that often.

Regina (07:39.629)

Yeah, it was an umbilical hernia, so right the belly button and I think it was from the endosurgery, even though that had been like 12 years prior. It just like weakens those muscles and there's a tear, you know, and that's that. But it was, you know, I have no pretty like pictures of me like pregnant, my belly. It was not cute.

Pauline (07:52.585)

Smile.

Pauline (07:59.816)

So, and it was just the gift that keeps on giving.

Regina (08:03.063)

Yeah, the pregnancy was pretty terrible. I was exhausted. I was like super sick. I couldn't like think straight. like honestly without Zofran, I just don't think I would have even survived. I just like couldn't even like think or focus or like see straight and the exhaustion and the nausea and all that was pretty terrible. I mean, if anyone saw me at any time, I was laying down for the most part.

And then I was working, I was running a team, I had a full-time job, was managing a team of 12 people. On the recruiting agency side at that point, I was working 100 % on commission, which was great. I did well and I loved that, but that's kind of like a stressful position to be in. And my team was...

I don't know what was it at the time, Gen Z-ers, and they were like, you're heinous and terrible and we never know what you're gonna say or do or how you're gonna be. And I was like, I'm pregnant, I don't know.

Pauline (09:01.083)

I was gonna say, did they know that you were pregnant when they said that?

Regina (09:05.125)

Yeah, I was like six months pregnant and this like whole thing like went down and it was terrible. But honestly, like I, you know, appreciated them saying, you know, this isn't working for us, but we want to make this better. And, you know, I ended up having some, coaching and management coaching and, and, you know, things got a lot better. And I'm, I'm very like friendly with all those gals today. Now they're all having babies, which is wonderful. Yeah. They're probably like, wow, we were.

Megan (09:28.162)

Now they're like,

Pauline (09:30.345)

You're like, just can't wait till I can tell one of you that you are miserable.

Regina (09:34.699)

Yeah, they were probably like, wow, we were really like not great to her at that time.

Megan (09:38.466)

We didn't get it how, I mean, first of all, the fertility medications that you can use can create such, I don't even say mood swings, that's not even fair to say. It's like real symptoms.

Regina (09:57.252)

Yeah, like true, true symptoms and like what I had kind of, you know, I guess in the from, you know, I've really always suffered with my period and then the endometriosis and very just like hormone sensitive, I kind of felt like. then, you know, I ended up, um, there's really, you know, just having such a hard time with that and the hormone changes. I determined that I was like able to get used to like

whatever eventually, but it was when it changed, right? So like when they added the progesterone or when they did the lupron and took all the estrogen away and then we added the estrogen patch, I was like, you know, I was like so happy, you know, and I was like, wow, this just like really affects me like way more than I like ever realized. And then, you know, when you think about hormones being like fully responsible for creating a human, you know, they're very powerful.

Pauline (10:39.571)

Thank you.

Regina (10:54.563)

And the spikes and the increases and the decreases just like super like threw me for a loop. And then you like blame yourself like psychologically that, what's wrong with me? Am I bipolar? Am I depressed? Am I this and that? it's like, you're fine. just, your hormones are all over the place and the response is really challenging. So once I've kind of figured out that like the changes were the hard part, but that I could kind of get used to it,

It was a little bit easier, the symptoms never really got easier.

Megan (11:28.814)

you knew like, okay, this is temporary. This is not necessarily who I am. This is a temporary response. How is it going work? Yeah. And then following pregnancy, then there's also a whole shift in hormones that takes place.

Regina (11:36.565)

Yes. My husband.

Regina (11:48.939)

Yeah, the birth, unfortunately, I had hoped for a vaginal birth and my water broke four weeks early in the middle of the night. honestly, it was like, I don't think I could have carried that baby one more day. My ankles were so swollen and I was so miserable, so uncomfortable. And then I was like, fine, like whatever, right? So we'd go to the hospital, we're laboring a little bit here and there. And then they tried to do the epidural and I just...

don't think the doctor was skilled or had done many, I don't know, but it took like an hour. There was blood everywhere. You know, they're like, lean over, While I'm having a baby, it was bad. I leaned back and like all hell breaks loose. know, God bless this lovely nurse. Her name was Lady and she...

Megan (12:28.952)

why you have this like, yeah.

Regina (12:41.539)

called some kind of code and 20 people rushed into the room. said, flip over, flip over. And I got on all fours and they shoved their hand up there and rushed me to the, um, you know, operating room. And they said, you know, they laid me down and they said, can you feel this? They're like poking my leg. like, yeah, yeah, I feel that. I mean, the epidural never worked. And they said, well, we have to put you to sleep. And my husband didn't even have time to put on scrubs or come in the room. Apparently the baby was out and in his arms within like two to three minutes.

Pauline (12:49.353)

That's scary.

Regina (13:09.283)

And then I went, you I was asleep and woke up in, you know, afterwards and said, why did they cut me? Why did they cut me? And I always had a hard time coming out of that anesthesia too. And then I had a baby and then, you know, I had that clicker with the good drugs and then I was happy. I was fine after that.

Pauline (13:09.289)

Bye.

Pauline (13:27.369)

What's your understanding now about why?

Regina (13:32.747)

I think her cord prolapsed. So I think the cord was like the head was pressing on the cord, think, and her heart rate had dropped. you know, that was that. So, you know, I'm like, I swear I was there for your birth, but, you know, I really wasn't. But, you know, like, there's so many things that like go wrong, even like earlier in her in her journey, we had had that like nuchal test at like, I don't know, 12 or 20 weeks or something. And I think they did it early because they were like, she has a hygroma and you have to have

Pauline (13:42.323)

Yeah.

Regina (14:02.348)

testing and I had to have the early amnio and they're like stabbing my stomach with this needle. You know, I mean the whole thing was terrible and they're like, she might have Down syndrome and you know, she was fine. Even before that, the embryo had split and there were twins for like a couple of weeks and then one had no heartbeat. So, you know, I mean it was a roller coaster.

Megan (14:22.286)

It's just this constant one thing after another. So people think like, once we get the positive pregnancy test, we can celebrate, but...

Pauline (14:25.179)

It sounds like...

Regina (14:31.422)

No, but you know what, you know, when you have a kid, it's like one thing after another. So I just chalked it up to like, you know, it's just a training for having a child and it being a mess.

Pauline (14:39.497)

Did you chalk it up to that then or that's what you can say now?

Regina (14:44.584)

Yeah, I don't know. Maybe that kind of grew into, you know, it just like is what it is.

Pauline (14:47.913)

I think when you're living in that and you're on that roller coaster, it's so hard to be like, oh, I'm going to understand this all one day.

Regina (14:58.368)

Yeah, no, know, think you know, friends are like, I'm so worried about the baby and the pregnancy this and that. I'm like, girl, you're gonna be worried forever. You know, like you're gonna have a kid and now we're just worried. So, yeah, it was good premonition.

Pauline (15:09.713)

I had somebody once who had like a really hard pregnancy after infertility and multiple IVFs. And I remember saying to me like, I paid someone to do this to me. Like, what was I thinking? Right? And so many people who are going through infertility and you just want to be pregnant, like all you can think about is like, I'm going to be pregnant. And then you get there and it's...

Regina (15:21.346)

Yeah.

Regina (15:25.824)

Yeah.

Pauline (15:39.161)

not the idealized version that you imagined.

Regina (15:39.522)

Yes.

Regina (15:43.828)

No, and then Julie threw me my shower that ended up being a sip and see because the baby was here four months early. So she was at her shower. for four weeks, four weeks, sorry, four weeks early. Yeah, no, not four months early. Yeah, she was.

Pauline (15:52.163)

four months early? said earlier.

Megan (15:57.346)

No, four months would have been, yeah. We would be having a different conversation right now.

Pauline (15:59.452)

I was like, that's a whole different story.

Regina (16:01.762)

Different ever say that she was four weeks early, but she was fine. She was five pounds She spent like one night in the NICU should like a little bit of low sugar But like she was perfectly fine I also like knew myself at that time too to say like I need sleep Take this baby take her to the nursery give her formula. I don't care whatever and then you know bring her to me during the day and I really had a

like honestly a great time in the hospital after that. Like people came to visit and it was super fun and she was healthy and it was wonderful. And you know, I did breastfeed for some time when I stopped at six months. I also had like a crazy hormone shift and like kind of lost it. And I know my poor husband like really has like PTSD from all of this. But yeah, you know, yeah, she's here and she's growing and she's fine. You know, and that's.

Pauline (16:53.135)

and still all part of the story that makes you who you are today.

Regina (16:59.017)

Yeah, yeah, you know, you know, something that was really challenging and like the what no mom tells you thing, you know, my mom and my sister, like neither of them had any infertility. They don't have endo. They both had unwanted pregnancies, you know, surprise pregnancies, know, multiple pregnancies easily. And, you know, that just like wasn't my journey. recently, like recently my mother said to me, you know, like,

I think that endometriosis thing is real. I don't think I believed you. And I was like, girl, are you for real? Like now, you now you think it's real? Like, yeah, like it's real. And I think like the amount of pain and like bad, you know, how bad you feel, it's like stunning sometimes. Like it's like actually like shocking to me. And I'm like, I think something's really wrong.

And I remember going to my OB at the time too and I'm like, something's wrong and I feel so bad. she's like, no, you're just pregnant. I was like, it can't be that bad. She's like, it can be that bad. So that was like really shocking because my sister had two children. I was there for both their births. Like she didn't have any of that. You know, neither does my mother. And they're just like, what's wrong with you?

Megan (18:23.724)

Yeah, it feels a little bit like gaslighting. I know everybody uses that term right now. But it's like as you're starting to see like, well, maybe it is in my head if everybody else seems to have had this like, but no, it's real. It's just not seen.

Regina (18:38.794)

There's always, yeah, and that is so frustrating, Megan. And like, there's always this thought in the back of my head that like, you know, there's just like something really wrong, but no one can tell me. And like, no one understands like how it's feeling. you know, it like a little bit of a vindication to, you know, have the endosurgery. And then when it was done, I felt like I wasn't being poisoned from the inside out anymore.

That was probably like the best way I could describe it. And then like, oddly and.

Pauline (19:12.123)

You physically could feel the difference right away.

Regina (19:16.542)

I I like woke up and like saw the light, you know, it was unbelievable. I was like, my God, I felt so bad. And you know, I still don't really know. I think it's a hormone thing, right? Like I think, you know, the endos have put in hormones out and this and that. But yeah, I just, I just really struggle with hormones and you know, apparently women and hormones are a real thing. So I'm still struggling.

Pauline (19:40.893)

Yeah, yeah, we either have them or are missing them or have too much of them. Like, it's like avocados, right? Like it's either, it's only perfect for very short amount of time.

Megan (19:42.574)

underfunded.

Megan (19:56.354)

What is that period of time? Is it like, no, I mean, I know avocado, I'm talking for us.

Pauline (19:58.506)

The avocado is like 24 hours.

Regina (20:05.438)

Yeah, you know, my window felt pretty short.

Pauline (20:05.769)

It's when we're not trying to get pregnant. It's during the period of time where we're like, stay away. I do not want to be pregnant.

Megan (20:12.398)

Yeah. Yeah. Like 14 to 19 maybe?

Regina (20:16.767)

Oh my gosh, think, yeah, I mean, I was sexually active like fairly early, I think for some people, but in like the amount of times I went and took a Plan B pill, like I didn't need any of that. Like I couldn't get pregnancy in my life. know I mean? So yeah, you're always like thinking that and it's just not necessarily the case. I think I had...

Pauline (20:32.637)

You only know.

Regina (20:45.866)

You know, always really struggled with my period too and like would just like lose it. And my friends would joke and say, she's having an episode and, you know, just crying and it would, you know, just tumble into all these other things. And it was hard not to think like, I'm crazy. And I remember always thinking like, I don't have anything to be crazy about. Like my life is good, you know, like there's nothing, nothing bad happened to me. Like, why am I so?

So why am I struggling, you know, and it's just not something you can really control. It's like not your fault. And it really is like you have to manage the symptoms and the hormones as best you can. I remember, I mean, I had also been diagnosed with anxiety disorder and depression disorder and all of that. And I really think it comes from the hormones, you know, initially. And I think there's just like a huge relation there. But yeah, know, I was just like, I don't know what's wrong with me.

Megan (21:43.142)

really valuable to highlight. Like, and we we talk about it a lot in the perinatal field like postpartum, but it's not just postpartum. And yet we hear that I'm going crazy, I feel like I'm going crazy. And

You know, I think in our circle, we know like how it affects people, but the outside world, that's what, that's the information they're getting too. What's wrong with you? Are you always going to be like this? What happened to you? Why can't you just dot dot dot, you know? Ugh.

Pauline (22:23.849)

Mm-hmm.

Regina (22:25.112)

It's really challenging for a marriage too, right? That like, happened to my wife and like, when do I get her back thing?

Pauline (22:35.195)

And you had just gotten married, right? It sounds like you were trying right away. So it wasn't even a honeymoon period.

Regina (22:37.757)

Yeah.

Regina (22:41.362)

Yeah, because yeah, they told me in 2012, like you're gonna have problems. So do this sooner than later. And I did not have insurance at the time that covered any of this. no one was letting, you know, it was not like a, now I feel like it's so normal to like go early and save your eggs and bank them and this and that. And like that wasn't really a thing. And no one really told me to do that. You know, nor did I have the money to do it at the time anyway, but.

I do kind of wish someone had said to me in 2012, like, go save your eggs, you know, because maybe I could have had an opportunity to have another, you know, couple of kids or pregnancies or surrogate or, know, whatever that meant for me. But, um, you know, I really didn't do the egg retrieval until I was in my thirties, you know, and then got pregnant at 36. Yeah.

Pauline (23:28.979)

Yeah. So we know that people who are sensitive to hormones are at risk for having like postpartum depression or anxiety. Did you have any mood stuff postpartum?

Regina (23:43.569)

you know, like the big shift I think was like six months when I stopped breastfeeding, like something happened and I lost it at that time. and.

Megan (23:56.536)

And you were already back to work then too. Yeah.

Regina (23:59.26)

Yeah, I mean, got like three months unpaid, you know, because I was on commission. But I think I was just like so happy at that point to just like have a daughter. You know, I was really, I really was like quite happy. The breastfeeding thing, you know, when that stopped, that was challenging. And then I feel, it's funny because like, I feel like, you know, six, seven years later, I'm finally like at a stasis and then.

Like I was telling you, I felt so terrible the other day. was like, something's wrong with me. And they're like, no, no, it's just perimenopause. So now it's like this whole other journey that's like, I just calm down.

Megan (24:37.932)

I know. Well, and then it's also that same pattern of like, I mean, I remember, I think we're about the same age, but I remember a year ago, maybe two, and I was like, I answered the door and it was cold outside and I closed the door and just this heat went over me. And I'm a cold nature person and I was like, what is this?

Regina (25:05.276)

Thanks.

Megan (25:07.17)

And then I was like, five minutes passed and I'm like, is this? And it's only happened a couple of times since. I'm ramping up to my full, to whatever that looks like, you know, but.

Regina (25:08.156)

Yeah.

Regina (25:17.742)

Yeah. You're full perimenopause potential. Yeah, I know. Like the hot flashes, the breast tenderness, the sharp pains. it really does. You know what? It's funny because I went to the gynecologist and I'm like listing my symptoms and she's like, you're sure you're not pregnant. I'm like, I'm definitely not pregnant. She's like, it's perimenopause. And it feels like pregnancy. I was like, are you kidding me? And no baby at the end. Yeah.

Pauline (25:43.497)

That is a kicker.

Megan (25:44.92)

But you know what, two years ago they would have been like, you're fine, it's normal. I think only now the conversation is starting to shift with some books being written, some people talking on podcasts about it that it's like, no, perimenopause is something to be managed, not to be ignored.

Regina (26:03.504)

You know, so she suggested HRT.

Pauline (26:04.585)

Women's health is something to be managed and not ignored.

Regina (26:10.332)

like don't even get me started, can't, I can't even. But she mentioned the HRT, but I'm already on birth control all the time for the endo, you know, which is really the main treatment for endometriosis. And you know, when that same doctor who had done my surgery, you know, Lynda Nichols, she was like amazing. She was like, you don't have to get your period, just take the birth control all the time. That changed my life in ways I just like can't even describe because like,

Every month that I'd get my period, I would turn everything upside down. It was like a total disaster in my life. I'd break up with my boyfriend, husband, whoever it was at the time. Everything is uprooted. Everything that was fine is no longer fine. And that happened every month. So to be able to stop that was a miracle. And my doctor offered to put me on a Nextelis, or an HRT, and she said, you're gonna get your period. I said, absolutely not. I will just stay on my birth control.

And she said, okay, fine, just manage the perimenopause symptoms. So yeah, I don't know, man, it's it's tough. It's tough.

Megan (27:14.926)

I'm miss stuff.

Pauline (27:16.131)

Yeah, but talking, like going to your doctor and asking about them, because so many people just suffer in silence. And like also, you know, we're learning more about perimenopause that it's not just hot flashes. Like that's not the only symptom, right? There are so many different symptoms.

Regina (27:31.751)

normal

Megan (27:32.046)

Yeah.

Regina (27:34.401)

Yeah, and then like the exhaustion, like a level of fatigue. Even when I was pregnant, I wasn't even that tired. Like this is like a whole other world of tired. You know, no amount of sleep untires you, right? It just doesn't change. It's super frustrating. And then, it was funny because my mom too said, you know, like, I never had these symptoms, this perimenopause. What is this? You know, and I said, girl.

You had rage, you had nausea, you were always gagging, you didn't like smells, you were anxious, you had hot flashes. Like, what are you talking about? She's like, oh yeah, and brain fog. I was like, perimenopause

Megan (28:16.942)

They just need to follow through a minute.

Pauline (28:16.947)

And I wish you age.

Regina (28:19.771)

Yeah, yeah. And I was like, yeah, you definitely had that girl. Yeah.

Megan (28:24.302)

Well, my sister-in-law, she'll say like, you know, people are like, know, a pair of menopause isn't a thing or I don't have it. And then it's like, well, what age were you when you got divorced? Or what age were you when you started drinking every night to go to sleep? Like, what age are you, you know? And she's like, hmm, like I'm starting to think like we don't recognize the source of it.

Regina (28:37.866)

on the

Regina (28:50.573)

No, and like the men can't feel it or see it. And you know, even some women can, because they just don't have that experience. But it is really hard to like have an internal disease for, you know, with the endo, you know, and then this hormone thing and just like, try to explain yourself, you know, they're, you just can't.

Pauline (29:12.489)

Even to try and understand yourself, not even explain it. Like, just to be able to know what you're thinking or feeling.

Regina (29:24.475)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I mean, I've been in therapy and on psych meds for 20 plus years, you know, and I stayed on my psych meds throughout my pregnancy and throughout breastfeeding. And I know like a lot of people have concerns about that. And I'm just like, you know, it was was literally a matter of life and death. I was like, well, I could stop taking them and die or I can take them and hopefully my baby will be okay.

You know, and then I even remember too, right? I'm like clicking fentanyl in the hospital and they're like, here breastfeed your baby. And I was like, no one cares that I'm like, yeah, it's fine. Okay. Yeah, I know. You know, like, you know, they want you to get off all this stuff and it's like, by the time it gets to your baby, is it really harming your baby? You know, I, you know, everyone makes their own choices, but I really didn't have a choice.

Pauline (30:02.909)

Dap a Prozac!

Pauline (30:17.673)

We are so fortunate to work with doctors who are like.

well studied and versed in the actual evidence for using medication during pregnancy and breastfeeding. And the answer is not just stop taking all of your medicine. Like there is risk associated with that. so having that careful conversation with your doctor about this is my life, my body, my mental health, history, present and future.

Regina (30:51.864)

Mm-hmm.

Pauline (30:54.443)

and what's going to be the best thing for me and my baby and that might be staying on your medication.

Regina (31:00.485)

Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's Right if it's not good for you, it's not gonna be good for your baby. You're not gonna be here for your baby Yeah, so I I think you know, there's a lot of stigma around that I think and and like they're like taking medicine every day like I mean, I you know, I take medicine to function like it just is what it is and like

unless somebody wants to send me to a spa for a year so I could get off all my beds. This is what I'm doing. And I really, with this perimenopause thing too, I'm like, you know what? I'm not gonna give myself a hard time. If I need a Xanax, take the Xanax. I need a Tylenol, take the Tylenol. You gotta manage it somehow and just not give yourself a hard time. Yeah.

Pauline (31:44.625)

Yeah, yeah, really being kind to yourself. Like, this is a real, real thing that's happening and sometimes real things need real treatment.

Regina (31:56.025)

Yeah, yeah. And I like to think too, like if you know, what would I say to a friend going through this? Right. And like, try to say that to myself too. Right. Like, it's not you. It's not your fault. It's gonna be okay. Like, do the best you can. If you need to lay down, lay down. You know.

Megan (32:11.274)

to just like take this recording show it to my clients when they're like I can't do this or like we're struggling with the self-love it's like what would you say to a friend that you care about?

Regina (32:23.191)

I love that one, that's helpful. Yeah.

Pauline (32:26.151)

Yeah, so it's so much easier to talk to a friend than to talk to yourself.

Regina (32:31.609)

I know, yeah, or just like give yourself a break. Yeah, and then, know, that whole everything being just kind of unseen and it can't really like express, you know, like how you're feeling or what you're feeling or why you're feeling it. It's so frustrating to not understand why, you know, just like I just feel terrible and I don't know why. Yeah, like I...

I took like three COVID tests the other day, because I was like, so tired. Like, what's wrong with something must be wrong.

Megan (33:02.968)

Just, you're just a woman.

Regina (33:04.589)

Being a woman.

Pauline (33:05.93)

hormones with those good old faithful friends.

Regina (33:10.677)

That's brutal, brutal.

Megan (33:13.144)

Well, I'm so glad that you were able to get through all the ups and downs to have your very sweet family. yeah.

Regina (33:20.779)

Yes, yes, yes. I feel really grateful, you know, for all that and I'm kind of like glad it's over. And, you know, just like ready to kind of move on to the next journey, which seems like it's going to be interesting.

Pauline (33:37.861)

It always is.

Regina (33:39.736)

I tell me if I'm wrong, but I feel like like menopause might be the easy part. I think it's like the perimenopause is the tough part. Is that the case? Okay.

Megan (33:46.626)

I don't know. What do you think, Pauline?

Pauline (33:51.209)

I can't quite say yet.

Megan (33:54.766)

Well, for my nurse practitioner was like, the other day she was like, well, the thing is, we don't know if this will end for you when you're 60 or 70. And I was like, what?

Regina (33:55.426)

Regina (34:10.591)

Yeah, they're like, this can go on for a decade.

Megan (34:11.616)

And I was like, she was like, you could be through this by the time you're 50 or by the time you're 70. And I was like, that's a very long stretch.

Regina (34:24.067)

Yeah, like tell me if I'm wrong too, but like it's the change in the hormones that caused the issue, right? But like the stasis of menopause, there's other issues, but then I think you're at least like...

Pauline (34:24.233)

Yeah.

Megan (34:37.314)

Well, all I know is that they were like when it's perimenopause, so when the hormones are fluctuating, so you still can get your period, but other things are irregular, it's that you still have some of the hormones. Like you're not, and this is what I got from my nurse practitioner. Please somebody Google it. Don't listen to my medical advice. I'm not a doctor.

Pauline (34:57.191)

Yeah, we are not doctors. But Megan, I think the truth is, like, we just don't study women, or we haven't studied women's bodies. So nobody exactly knows what or why this is happening.

Regina (35:09.234)

No.

Megan (35:09.772)

Because she was like, I wouldn't know what to put you on because I don't know what the hormones are doing in your body right now. She's like, could put you on birth control and then we can control it. But she's like, but I don't know if you're ready for HRT or not. And I'm like, okay, well.

Pauline (35:17.442)

But your hormones change every single day.

Regina (35:30.632)

Yeah, I thought I was like nailing perimenopause, but then it like came for me hard. So no longer nailing it.

Megan (35:37.694)

I know. We just need like a little...

Pauline (35:37.886)

Yeah, I was in a conference like a year ago and one of the OBs was talking about peri-menopause. And the list of symptoms was like insane from like hot flashes and insomnia to itchy skin, itchy ears, dry eyes, dry mouth, dry vagina, hair.

Regina (35:49.399)

It's like everything.

Regina (36:01.655)

Air loss. Yeah, good. Rain fog.

Megan (36:04.706)

They're lost.

Pauline (36:06.537)

brain fog, the tiredness, moodiness, I mean, it's a long list of rude. Almost as rude as John Bon Jovi being on the cover of the AARP magazine this month. Also rude.

Regina (36:15.521)

just really rude.

Megan (36:18.318)

It's really rude. It's like once we met, I was...

Regina (36:32.599)

Or like when you get Instagram ads, like, you're fat and ugly like this person. You should get this product. I'm like, no.

Megan (36:41.226)

You're like, is that what you think? Well, every once in a while, I think I have like, um, sometimes, I don't even know if I say this, sometimes I think I have like,

a little bit like reverse body dysmorphia where I like don't know what I actually look like and so I'm like thinking I'm like the 25 year old version of myself and then and I guess in the mirror it doesn't click but then I see a picture of myself and I'm like wait a second that's the lady we're working with right

Regina (37:09.849)

moment.

Regina (37:14.918)

It is funny because you don't feel old, right? And I feel like everyone's always said that, but like you don't like get it until you're like in it. you're yeah, like I really, you know, my colleague at work is 20 years younger. I'm like, you know, it's like, yeah, it's it's disturbing. Yeah.

Pauline (37:28.681)

I have those.

Megan (37:32.302)

Not me, I'm not 20 years younger than you. But, I mean even the other day, Pauline, our last one that we recorded, I was saying something and you were like, Megan, she's a lot younger than you are. And I was like, wait a second.

Regina (37:46.282)

Yeah, that's where it's.

Megan (37:47.276)

I just don't have that realization that it's like, yeah, no, there are people who are professionals that are 20 years younger than you. And I'm like, OK. All right. That's where we are. OK.

Regina (37:57.76)

Mm.

But yeah, like, look, I wish my mom had said like, you know, like, it's clear you're suffering, like, let's figure out how to manage this, you know, and that was not really it. It was more like your crazy deal, you know, and that's tough, right? And then also the like, being able to be on the birth control all the time and not get my period was like, like really an absolute life changer. Like, again, I am

I don't take medical advice from me, but like if you have trouble, like go to your doctor. Like do not have your period. You don't need it if you're not trying to get pregnant, you know? And then...

Pauline (38:38.166)

Some people might, they should talk to their doctor.

Regina (38:41.27)

Yeah, like, you know, people are, oh, you have to bleed and this. I mean, I don't, you know, I don't know. But I was told that, you don't need to have it. Take your breath control. And also that, like the lack of the cellular turnover every month could actually be a plus for cancer and things like that, because you're not having your body do that. So again, you know, probably not studied. don't, you know, I don't know that there's evidence there. But, you know, I took that and ran with it. I haven't had my period in.

many years. And I'm as stable as I can possibly be, you know, but it's rough.

Pauline (39:19.473)

Yeah. So, so the thing no mom told you, I mean, we've covered a few, right? Like, like getting pregnant isn't the end. Like it continues after that.

Regina (39:26.934)

Yeah, I should be able to.

Regina (39:31.542)

now.

Mm-hmm.

Pauline (39:35.847)

You don't need to suffer.

Regina (39:39.38)

Everything's really different for everyone. And just because your mom or sister or friend has it one way does not mean that's gonna be your experience. And like, really need to hold space for that, you for other people and try to understand that. And then, you know, like you're not crazy. You're just, you know, you're just, your body is different. So yeah, if no one, if no mom tells you, I'm here tell you.

Pauline (40:04.711)

Yes.

Megan (40:08.754)

you

Pauline (40:09.085)

You're not crazy. There, you said it.

Regina (40:10.454)

Alright, great.

Megan (40:11.362)

And you can sit on your mat.

Regina (40:13.267)

Yeah, yes. And I thank both of you and folks who work closely with women and through this stage of life, it's just like so tenuous and it's just so wonderful of you all to give yourselves your time and energy towards that. So it's a gift to many, I'm sure.

Pauline (40:33.415)

Well, we can only do it because of like you who are willing to share your story. So thank you.

Regina (40:41.234)

You're welcome. Happy to do it. Thank you for asking me, Megan.

Megan (40:45.438)

thank you for sharing and for sharing so openly and and definitely we'll come have another karaoke night  All right well thank you for spending your time today and taking some time out and we'll see you later.

Regina (40:48.23)

Yeah, let's let's get together. We'll crash Julie's apartment.

Regina (40:56.328)

Indeed.

Regina (41:00.894)

Thank you all. Okay, bye.

Pauline (41:03.902)

time.