Leslie Sultan (00:00)

only something like 40% of people have an estate plan.

we all know we're gonna die. It's not not

Megan (00:04)

Yeah.

Leslie Sultan (00:05)

gonna happen. Nobody's broken that rule yet. what is stopping people?

what happens if you die? Look it up, Google. What happens if I die in New York without a will? And it's gonna tell you there's a hierarchy. So if you're married, it goes to your spouse. If you're not married but you have children, it goes to your children. If you're married and you have children, it's 50,000 plus 50% to your spouse. The other 50% is divided equally among the children. No spouse, no children, it goes to your parents. No parents, it goes to your siblings. No siblings, it goes to nieces and nephews, and then on and on and on.

So if you don't like that plan, you have to put it in writing. You have to put your plan in writing, and that's a will or a trust.

Pauline (00:59)

Hello and welcome back. I'm Pauline Walfisch, co-host of What No Mom Told You here with my faithful co-host, Megan Nelson. Megan, would

you introduce our guest?

Megan (01:11)

Hi everyone. So as much care and planning that we might put

into having a family or taking care of our family.

Sometimes we miss one of the more important tasks, and that is estate planning. So today we have a guest on. She is a mom of two young children and an estate planning attorney, Leslie Sultan. She's a CUNY law graduate, and Leslie built her practice around the belief that legal help should always start with the client's real needs. After years of seeing families endure long and costly probate battles, she now helps people plan so that

Loved ones are fully protected. She's also the host of The Legacy Purse podcast. So please welcome Leslie Sultan to the show. Welcome Leslie. We're happy to have you.

Leslie Sultan (02:01)

Hi, thank you. I'm super happy to be here.

Pauline (02:03)

I met Leslie at a women's business networking meeting and we happened to be sitting right across the table from each other and she was like, I'm you know, we did introduction, she said, I'm an estate planning attorney and I was like, Oh, how serendipity because I have just spent the whole week talking to my parent's estate planning attorneys, and my like head is spinning.

And Leslie was so gracious and said, you know, I can answer any questions you have. And I was like, I might actually take you up on that. Because it's

Megan (02:34)

Ha ha

Pauline (02:35)

so overwhelming. It's really complicated. And there's so many different options. And it's not just like do this and you're And for people who don't have a law background or don't understand all of this, it's really intimidating. So

So glad you're helping people figure this out.

Megan (02:54)

Yeah.

Leslie Sultan (02:54)

Yes, thank you. Yes, we hear it all the time. It's very overwhelming. The terms are complicated. People get confused with the terminology. That alone is intimidating. So I'm happy to be here, happy to break it down and explain things. So any questions you have, shoot, I'm happy to answer them.

Pauline (03:10)

Yeah. And you're a mom yourself of two young kids. So this is what Megan alluded to, right? Parents don't really think about the plans for if they die. I mean, literally we're talking about when parents die, right? That's

Megan (03:25)

Yeah.

Pauline (03:25)

that is what estate planning is. So how do you tell a new mom like

Congratulations on your new baby. What are you gonna do if you die?

Leslie Sultan (03:35)

Yeah. Um, and I think that, you know, as parents of minor children, it's it's something we kind of think about, but it's hard to get to. And then there's, you know, the difference between important and urgent. So we always do what's urgent before we do what's important. And estate planning tends to fall in the important category, but not necessarily urgent. Especially

Megan (03:52)

Yeah.

Leslie Sultan (03:53)

when you're a new mom, right? There's like a thousand other things you're worrying about. You want to make sure your s child wakes up in the morning. So this kind of falls down.

most important is is understanding what the options are. I think COVID had a big impact on parents of minor children where we saw that people we are vulnerable too, right? We're just because we think we're gonna live to a long old right up old age doesn't mean that's true. Just because we don't have a pre-existing condition doesn't mean we don't. and so we've seen a huge trend actually in in media, social media, a lot more.

people, parents of minor children are doing estate planning, which is great. And I'm super happy to be part of the movement.

and it just starts, you know, really with educating people, talking about it, um, not letting that fear of planning or that fear of dying stop people. And so I thought, you know, it's so great to have you guys in this podcast because you guys are sort of talking about what is stopping people from from these things. You know, what's what's behind that?

Megan (04:49)

Yeah.

Is it is it the fear of talking about it or thinking about it, you think, that is really keeping people from making these plans?

Leslie Sultan (04:59)

Think it's well, I have a lot of theories on this. one, I think it's cultural, right? So I

come from a culture, my family's Jewish. For some reason, my family always talks about it. You know, it's just a very common conversation. I remember my grandma saying, When I die, you're gonna get that flower

pot, you know, or this ring. whereas my law partner, Christina, her family didn't talk about it. They didn't plan, you know, nobody had plans in place. Everyone in my family has an estate plan. So I think part of that is sort of the

the culture and and and what you're used to. And then some families of course never talk about it, right? It's why are you asking me?

Pauline (05:34)

Right. Nope.

Leslie Sultan (05:34)

You want my money? You want

me to die?

Megan (05:36)

Yeah.

Leslie Sultan (05:37)

You know, or some sort of fears around if I talk about it, I'm gonna die, something bad's gonna happen, sort of the superstition. whatever it is, it's certainly impacting people because only something like 40% of people have an estate plan.

you know, we all know we're gonna die. It's not not

Megan (05:52)

Yeah.

Leslie Sultan (05:53)

gonna happen. Nobody's broken that rule yet. So what is stopping people? Yeah.

Megan (05:57)

Hm

Pauline (05:58)

Yeah.

Megan (05:58)

yeah,

I'm guessing that the forty percent of people who have an estate plan are not in their thirties necessarily.

Leslie Sultan (06:05)

Yeah, that's a good I'm not sure if I know the statistics. We might want to look that up and yeah.

Megan (06:10)

But I

Pauline (06:10)

Yeah.

Megan (06:10)

think people tend to think about it as they get a little bit older, right? Like

Pauline (06:14)

Yeah.

Leslie Sultan (06:14)

I agree. Yeah.

Pauline (06:15)

and I think it's true that it's cultural as far as ethnicities, like there are some cultures like we don't talk about death, like you don't wanna bring that upon you if you say it out loud, right? And so if that's your belief or your family's belief, then we're not having a difficult conversation about what happens if I die. Because estate

Planning involves conversations with other people. It's not even just your plan. I know yes, just yesterday I was like, oh, right. If I put some a trust together for my kids, then I have to appoint somebody as a trustee, then I have to have a conversation if they're willing to take on that role if I die. So it's a lot of talking about.

the what ifs that we spend a lot of effort avoiding, thinking about

Leslie Sultan (07:08)

Right.

Pauline (07:09)

or talking about.

Leslie Sultan (07:10)

Mm-hmm. Yeah, and it's a lot of work. I mean, when we're doing a trust plan, for example, we have to know what are your assets, where are your assets? Some people don't have a a list of all their bank accounts, right? I mean, we see this all the time when somebody dies and the family's like, I don't know where their money is. I I don't know what

accounts they have.

Pauline (07:32)

Right, because

we we as a society, I think, are very private about money.

Leslie Sultan (07:36)

Uh-huh.

Pauline (07:37)

We don't like there's probably shame associated. I have it, I don't have it, will

Leslie Sultan (07:43)

Right.

Pauline (07:44)

you steal it? Will you look at me differently? Like so people don't, I mean, even in therapy, we talk about it, but it's not something that often comes into the room unless it's like a

cause of distress, otherwise something you don't talk about.

Leslie Sultan (08:01)

Yeah.

Pauline (08:01)

I know when

we were doing my parents, I I literally just a few weeks ago told my sister, I'm like, okay, I'm doing all this other part, I need you to go to their house, sit at their desk and their computer, and figure out where they have bank accounts, what the account numbers are, what the passwords are. and it turned out they had like things we had that they didn't remember that they had. And I'm like, my goodness.

Leslie Sultan (08:27)

Yep. And then we have unclaimed funds. We have 70 billion dollars in unclaimed funds because people don't find the money in time or ever. And it is she sheets to the state, and the state's just building interest on it. I hope they're using it for a good purpose. And

Megan (08:43)

Yeah.

Leslie Sultan (08:44)

you have to prove at some point that it's your money or your family's money. And sometimes even we have clients who we've we've done their estate, you know, their probate case, we've got someone appointed.

And then the unclaimed funds search comes back and it says, we need proof that this this the dead person lived in Brooklyn. Well, that was twenty years ago. We don't have any who keeps that proof? So now they're really it's impossible sometimes to get the money out of unclaimed funds. So

Pauline (09:11)

Yeah.

Megan (09:12)

What do you mean by um don't get it out in time?

Leslie Sultan (09:16)

So typically banks have a policy of one year to two years if an account is inactive. or in some cases, sometimes people will write a check. like a company might write a refund check to send it to an old address on file. It doesn't make it there. So what do they do with that money? They have to send it to unclaimed funds. Each state has an unclaimed funds department. and I I remember this happened to me once because I had a safe deposit box once and I I just wasn't going there and I wasn't

I think I was paying for it but I wasn't visiting it. And after a while they were just like, if you don't come within the next month, we're gonna send everything to unclaim funds. so yeah, they just have policies where they're not holding accounts that are inactive. They'll just send your money out. It's just gone.

Megan (09:57)

I did

one time have was overcharged for a copay and apparently never knew and then I got thirty six dollars back from unclaimed funds.

Pauline (10:07)

Yeah. My grandfather

died probably thirty five years ago. And last year my mom got a notice that like he had unclaimed funds from like a pension and got them and we were like I was like, nah, I think this might be a scam. Like don't give them your information. And it turned out not to be. It was real money and it wasn't like a I mean, it wasn't a huge amount of money, but it wasn't thirty six dollars. And I was like

Okay, great.

Leslie Sultan (10:36)

Yeah. And unfortunately

you never know. You could go through the whole application process and get twelve cents or you could get thousand you know, you never know. It's a mystery. Yeah.

Pauline (10:45)

Yeah.

Megan (10:45)

Yeah.

like a scratch off or something.

Leslie Sultan (10:47)

Yeah. I do encourage everybody listening

to check their state's unclaimed funds. You never know what you're gonna get.

Megan (10:52)

Yeah.

Leslie Sultan (10:53)

Check your family, friends, everybody. Um, let's get our money back. So

Megan (10:57)

Yeah.

Pauline (10:57)

Yeah,

maybe we'll put the link to the New York one here in our comments so people can find it. you mentioned the cultural reasons why people don't talk about death and estate planning. There's also I suspect a lot of financial reasons because I hear lawyer and I hear complicated process and I'm thinking, ooh, like I don't.

I can barely afford diapers. is

estate planning something that is cost prohibitive for most people?

is it only for rich people? Yeah,

Megan (11:28)

Is it only for rich people? Yeah, it's like uh

Pauline (11:33)

besides that, like can only rich people afford it and do only rich people need it?

Leslie Sultan (11:37)

Right.

Megan (11:37)

Yeah.

Leslie Sultan (11:38)

I love this question. So yeah, I mean that is definitely the myth around estate planning. we definitely want to demystify that by saying estate planning is not just about assets, right? It's also about incapacity planning. So some of the most basic and most important documents to have is power of attorney, healthcare proxy, living will.

these typically don't cost a lot of money. We

Megan (12:01)

Mm.

Leslie Sultan (12:01)

always include them when someone's doing a will or a trust package with us. It's it's included. but sometimes we do them at just a standalone. typically, you know, kids going off to college, right? They just turned 18. Guess what? Mommy and daddy no longer have any legal rights to your medical, your financial, your health information, anything. So by doing a simple power of attorney and healthcare proxy and naming your parents or just maybe just mom or whatever it is.

As that agent, now if something happens, I mean the worst fear for a parent is my son's at a party and he gets drunk and he winds up in the hospital, nobody's gonna call them, right? So at least these they the children have these documents with them on file. Now parents have access to that information again. we always recommend you do use a lawyer even for those basic documents because one of the worst things we've seen is now with it, you know, everybody has access online, they can download a form.

They fill it out, it's the wrong form. When they try to use it,

Megan (12:57)

Yeah.

Leslie Sultan (12:58)

it's rejected, right? So we always want to, you know, even if you have to pay a little bit for that peace of mind of knowing you got the right form, uh, we recommend that. when it comes to estate planning, I do see in terms of asset protection, young parents typically they're renting or they just bought a house with a huge mortgage, they don't really have a lot of money for maybe creating a trust.

I always like to start with what state do you live in? You know, what is what happens if you die without a a a will or a trust? And what does probate look like?

Pauline (13:27)

Can you just back up for a second? What's an asset? Like you said like talking about asset protection. I

Leslie Sultan (13:33)

huh.

Pauline (13:33)

hear asset, I think house, but you just said like they're renting. So what are you considering assets?

Leslie Sultan (13:40)

Great. So I mean anything that's ownership of a of a bank account, a house, certainly anything you owe money for, like an apartment, you don't own it. It's a rental, it's actually an expense.

But mostly bank accounts, life insurance, retirement accounts, um, you know, that's kind of where we start. And a lot of those bank account, a retirement account, life insurance can have beneficiaries. So the easiest way to avoid probate and um and kind of avoid even estate planning is you make sure you name beneficiaries on all your accounts. Because essentially your when you put your money in a bank, you say, here's my money, let me sign a you know a an account agreement.

I'm agreeing to give you my money and this is the person I name to receive it if I die. And the bank has to honor that. It doesn't matter what I have in my will or my trust. The bank's gonna go off of that document. So ideally we want beneficiaries on all accounts. We want to update the beneficiaries and check them periodically. But here's the thing: minors cannot fill out a claim form if they are the beneficiary. Under 18, they are not legally allowed to receive the money.

And this is where the huge problems start for parents of minor children, naming minors as beneficiaries. So that's where we do need to start looking at a will or a trust instead of the actual person on the beneficiary. So we can get

Pauline (15:03)

Mm.

Leslie Sultan (15:03)

into that in a little bit more detail.

Pauline (15:05)

That's

where that probate thing falls into comes like and what

is probate?

Leslie Sultan (15:10)

Yep. So probate is a court process. It technically means to prove and probate you probate a will. your last will and testament is your wishes for how you want your assets distributed if you don't have a beneficiary or a co-owner, right? So we if you have a co-owner on a bank account or a house, it always goes to the joint owner, not to be confused with co-owner. So let me just clarify: joint owner is you each own one hundred percent.

When one dies, the other is continues to own 100%. Co-owner, typically we see this in a house, 50%, 50%. It's not necessarily joint. The other party will not necessarily receive your 50% and they would have to go through court to get it. So when there's a will, we call it probate, because you have to prove that the will is valid. If there is no will, we call it intestate, and the state has the rules for how it's going to be distributed.

Either way it goes through the same court. For New York we call it the surrogates court. There's just two different departments in the same building. One's the administration for no will and one's probate when there is a will. So anything without a beneficiary or joint owner has to go through that court process.

Pauline (16:20)

Yeah. So anything that

involves a court process, I'm already annoyed and anxious and it's gonna take a

Megan (16:25)

Yeah.

Pauline (16:26)

long time. Sorry for anybody who like works in the court system.

Megan (16:30)

They probably know.

Pauline (16:33)

Probably. I did hear an estate attorney say like don't die in Queens 'cause apparently their probate period is like a year and a half.

Leslie Sultan (16:42)

Well, actually as of today, right, September twenty twenty six, I would say Queens is one of the fastest. So it does fluctuate,

Pauline (16:48)

Oh.

Leslie Sultan (16:49)

right? It we're talking about populations, we're talking about administration, right? So I now I say don't die in the Bronx.

Megan (16:57)

Okay.

Leslie Sultan (16:57)

The Bronx is to me the worst right now. It's very difficult to to process things there. But Queens we've been doing weeks, which is great. Brooklyn had a period of time where it was taking years and now they've gotten a little bit faster.

The irony, right, is that the administration department versus the probate department, which one do you guys think moves faster?

Megan (17:18)

I'm guessing probate, but I don't know. I don't know.

Pauline (17:19)

all of government, I'm thinking.

Leslie Sultan (17:18)

Well I don't

So technically the administration department we see moves faster. So they're processing estates faster when you don't have a will.

Pauline (17:31)

Mm.

Megan (17:32)

What's the risk then of not having a will?

Leslie Sultan (17:36)

Great question. So we always start with what happens if you die? Look it up, Google. What happens if I die in New York without a will? And it's gonna tell you there's a hierarchy. So if you're married, it goes to your spouse. If you're not married but you have children, it goes to your children. If you're married and you have children, it's 50,000 plus 50% to your spouse. The other 50% is divided equally among the children. No spouse, no children, it goes to your parents. No parents, it goes to your siblings. No siblings, it goes to nieces and nephews, and then on and on and on.

So if you don't like that plan, you have to put it in writing. You have to put your plan in writing, and that's a will or a trust. A will always has to go through probate, and that's what most people don't realize. And then a trust is a way to avoid probate completely because you're creating a legal document outside of the courts that never has to go to court that says I'm leaving everything to my children and we're gonna hold it until a certain age.

And then it's all in that trust. And then when you pass away, someone else immediately takes control of the trust and distributes it according to your wishes.

Pauline (18:39)

And I learned, at least I think I learned, even if you have a will, like property can't be passed through a will. Like, is that like is there some special caveat about like property? Or yes, it still goes follows the will.

Leslie Sultan (18:59)

Yeah, whenever there's a will, technically there's it's going to control your property. what I think you're talking about is real property, which is houses, lands,

technically

can pass without a will, because it

Megan (19:12)

Mm.

Leslie Sultan (19:12)

passes by operation of law. But this is a kind of complex, nuanced thing. So let's say I have a house, I die, I don't have a will, and I have two children, no spouse. They are automatically going to inherit my house.

They don't I don't need a will, I don't need to worry about it. The problem is that we have things called title companies, right? And they have to make sure that a certain period of time goes by before we just transfer the house and they insure it. Because what if there's a third kid that they don't know about? How do they know there's not a spouse? But Yes. Yes.

Megan (19:44)

Right. And I've heard that happening to an adult child, but surprise.

Yeah, here's your brother. Yeah.

Leslie Sultan (19:52)

Right, so when we can, we try to do what's called an heirs at law transfer when we have family coming, mom died, no will, it's just a house, it's just the two kids. We'll try to work with the title company and get them to transfer it, but we're at the mercy of the title company and their requirements. And so it's not always quick and easy. and one of the you know, unfortunate things we see is someone does a will just for a house, and now we have to go through court.

in order to get it transferred because we did a will. So we can only do the heirs transfer when there's no will. Once there's a will, we have to send it through court.

Pauline (20:28)

Right. And that that gets tricky 'cause depending on how long probate takes, you're inheriting this house with no resources to pay for it because it's stuck in probate and so like who's paying the taxes and the mortgage and the landscaper

Leslie Sultan (20:43)

You're speaking my language, Pauline. Yep. Exactly. So when somebody dies, bank accounts get frozen. essentially when a death certificate is filed, Social Security is notified. Social Security notifies all the banks associated with that social security number, and the banks lock it down to prevent fraud and and you know any kind of theft of the money. So now I'm inheriting a house through a will. The will has to be proven to be valid.

And I have no access to the money. How am I paying the mortgage? How am I paying the taxes? I have my own mortgage and taxes to pay.

Megan (21:15)

Yeah.

Leslie Sultan (21:16)

Sometimes they end up in foreclosure. I mean, it's kind of the worst thing you can do sometimes for your family is leave it to them in a will.

Megan (21:23)

Really? I

Leslie Sultan (21:24)

Mm-hmm.

Megan (21:24)

would have never known that.

Leslie Sultan (21:27)

And here's another

kicker,

probate, a lot of people think, okay, I'll do a will, my family will receive it, might have to a little delay, and then they'll get it. Well, probate court was not designed for families, it was designed for creditors. So because we have a credit economy where we're lending money, how do people collect money when someone dies?

We can't go after their kids for the money, right? That's not fair. That's this comes from old English law where they used to do that and then there was a just separation of church and state. We said, okay, we can only go after their estate. Well, what's in what's your estate is what's left in your name when you die. So when you file for probate, now everybody who you owe money to gets notice essentially that you've died. They have a very short window of time to come in and file a claim.

If they don't file within that window of time, they get cut off. So that's the only good news about probate is there is a cutoff period. So essentially children don't get to receive their inheritance until all those creditor claims get paid first. So family comes last, creditors come first.

Pauline (22:29)

And I know a ton of people listening, because I've heard it from my own family, it'll be like, Well, they can't come after me when I'm dead. Like, I don't care if I charge up my credit cards, but hello, they can come after your estate and then your estate that you were hoping was gonna be passed on to your kids is now diminished or less than what it was expected.

Leslie Sultan (22:51)

You get it.

Megan (22:52)

So what if someone wants, and let's say that their children are adults, like we're not talking about minors, that they want to to make sure to ensure that their property, so let's say their house, maybe they have a little bit of money, but most of their assets are their home that they own. And they want to make sure that that goes to their children in the easiest way possible.

Leslie Sultan (23:17)

Yep.

Megan (23:18)

What do you suggest?

Leslie Sultan (23:19)

Yep. So a trust is the is the easiest way. we say a trust is a gift you give your family because you're not inviting them to go to court to get their inheritance. You basically package it up in a nice little box and give it to them. so the way I like to explain a trust is, you know, it's a legal document, it's essentially a contract that says I'm the grantor, I'm gonna put everything in this trust, and when I die, my sister's gonna be my successor trustee.

and there's instructions that says how I want it to be distributed equally to my children. now the trick with the trust is you have to fund the trust during your lifetime. So this is why we call it a living trust. I have to move the assets out of my name and into the name of the trust in order for the trust document to control it. So a classic example, like you said, a house. Right now the house is in my name. I have to

Do a new deed and transfer it out of my name as the seller into the name of my trust as the buyer. This moves the house into the trust and now the trust controls it. Same with my bank accounts, same with my life insurance, right? I have minor children. I'm not going to name my minor children on the life insurance. I'm going to name my trust as the beneficiary.

Megan (24:26)

Mm.

Leslie Sultan (24:27)

So then my trustee will fill out the claim form, they'll receive a check written to the trust, they'll put it in a trust bank account, and they'll manage it for the minor children.

The analogy I like to use is a purse. So it's like when you own everything in your name, it's like it's in your pockets. When it's in your pockets, nobody and you die, nobody can just reach in and grab whatever they want. They've got to go through court to get permission. But if I create a living trust, it's like I'm buying a bag from an attorney, you know, not a cheap one, Louis Vuitton or Gucci, we're buying a thousands of dollar purse, and I'm moving the assets out of my pocket and putting it in the bag while I'm alive. Now the question comes up: who's carrying the bag?

Right, so whenever if I'm doing a revocable trust, typically I'm carrying the bag. So I have it in I have a I happen to have a bag here. So I take everything out of my purse, I put it in the bag, and then I'm in charge of the bag. So I'm the trustee, I can sell my house, I can still write my checks, I'm in control of my trust and my bag, and when I die, I take it off and give it to the next person. They put it on their shoulder, and now they're in charge. They can sell the house, they can write the checks, etc.

So that's the revocable trust. A lot of people have heard of an irrevocable trust. Same concept, taking the items out of my pocket, sticking them in the bag, but giving the bag to someone else during my lifetime. And now that person's in charge. And the reason we do that, especially in New York, is for Medicaid planning purposes. So if I don't have anything in my pockets and I don't have a purse, I qualify for Medicaid.

Someone else has the bag, they're holding the assets for the benefit of my family or loved ones, and I qualify for Medicaid. Medicaid has what's called estate recovery, right? Estate is only what's in my name when I die, what's in my pockets. So if I were to go into a nursing home and I use Medicaid, Medicaid can come after whatever's in my pockets, but I don't have anything in my pockets. I put it in the purse, I gave the purse to someone else.

Pauline (26:22)

The exception being if it's a brand new purse or the purse has not aged five years, right? Because Medicaid has this five year look back, obviously the state, the government doesn't want to like have people just hiding their money in fancy purses. It has to be something that you've done thoughtfully and planfully and for nursing home Medicaid, not just community Medicaid, but like nursing home eligibility Medicaid, that

purse needs to be five years old in order for it to be fully protected. Is that

Leslie Sultan (26:57)

Yes, so right, great great question and and very important clarification. So again, in New York we have two types of Medicaid. We have the nursing home where I can't be in my house, I need a feeding tube, I need major care, I'm gonna be in a nursing home. Then there is the five year look back, and so just like you said, we wanna pre plan, right? So we wanna do it while we're alive, while we're healthy, put everything in the bag, put it give the bag to someone else and then wait and then hope we never need it. But if we do, we

now qualify five years later.

Unfortunately, a lot of people don't plan that way. So we are doing what's called community Medicaid where they're not so bad where they can stay in the house and they can have the aids coming in, or in some cases, living in an assisted living and paying for the aids there. So that one there is no look back in New York right now, luckily. They are talking about adding a two and a half year look back or a 30-month look back, but it has not gone into effect.

but we do anticipate that happening in the near future because they've been talking about it for a while. so essentially there would be a look back for in-home care, but right now there is no in-home community look back. So people who are sp starting to spend down their life savings on care and are at home, they should absolutely be considering the Medicaid trust and setting that up. And of you know, of course, there's processing delays, it takes months to get qualified, but there's

Pauline (28:15)

Yeah.

Leslie Sultan (28:15)

not

Megan (28:15)

For someone that might be, let's say, like experiencing early cognitive decline, that is something that they can plan for. Yeah.

Leslie Sultan (28:23)

Absolutely. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Pauline (28:25)

Yeah. And just so for those who are listening that you're clear, if you haven't done that planning and you have money in the bank, like there's no help coming until you have spent all of your

assets. Right. And so any savings that you've had, any planning that you had to pass on, that generational wealth, that thing that I think we're all chasing,

that could be lost because the cost of a nursing home is like thousands of dollars a day, if I'm correct. Whatever it is, it's not cheap.

Leslie Sultan (28:59)

Well yeah, we average about twenty

twenty thousand a month in New York. Yeah.

Pauline (29:05)

Yeah. So you can very quickly blow through an entire life savings if you didn't plan. And then who who suffers from that is is the people who we're going to pass it down to. So we started this conversation talking about kids and obviously like I'm a kid, but I'm an older child, right? So I unfortunately I happen to know a lot about this right now just because of my life circumstances.

But parents of young kids need to start this planning because and this is what made me be like, yeah, I have one minor child and one legally adult child. And the attorney said to me, like, if something happened to you right now, would they would you want them to get one big check with your

and I was like, Oh

Good lord. Um, if my child's listening, I'm really sorry. But I think they would even admit that that would be a bad idea. And you know, they said sort of like people are considering the age of maturity right now as like 30. And so you can put the money into a trust that they don't have direct access to until they're 30. They need something, they can call their trustee. I need to buy a car.

Can I use the money for that?

Megan (30:21)

Money for education, yeah.

Pauline (30:23)

But they can't go out and buy a Lamborghini on their own. that made me be like, Oh, okay, like I guess I've been thinking I'm young, I don't really need to uh do that kind of estate planning like I'm doing for my parents. But maybe I do.

Leslie Sultan (30:39)

Hundred percent. Yeah. Yeah, we tell people you need to start estate planning at eighteen. So parents of minor children typically fall into the sandwich generation category. So if you're not helping your parents plan properly, you're going to get stuck with the mess, right? You're going to be in court trying to receive your inheritance. why not talk to them about it? And one of the things, you know, I

uh working with people on is how to talk to your parents about this, right? What's the best way? And we found the best way is, hey, I just did this for myself. can

we talk about what your plan is? Have you appointed someone? Would you be willing to have me help you? because I just went through this and learned this. So some

Megan (31:22)

And I think

a few years ago I was working in caregiver support and many people confuse like, I have a power of attorney, but they didn't have a medical power of attorney. And they're two different

things as well. So it's really being able to clarify like, no, do we have the actual forms needed? You know.

Pauline (31:40)

Yeah. And it's

Leslie Sultan (31:40)

Yep, exactly. Yeah.

Pauline (31:42)

complicated. My you know, back during COVID I sat with my parents and they did their estate planning and they wrote their power of attorney. And at that point, that was, you know, six years ago. They're six years older now. Their power of attorney that they signed then said each other are their power of attorney. And then if they weren't available, then it was my sister and I.

And that seemed fine six years ago, but now they're six years older and we're like, Oh, you're gonna make decisions. Okay, like and and they, you know, it was a it was a hard conversation because they were both like, no, we're fine, we can do it. We don't we like why can't we be our power of attorney? And finally they we they got on board because you can have multiple people as the power of attorney. So they got on board of like they can still be it, but it's

Also my sister and I, right? So or whoever whatever your family looks like. And I I had to say to my mom, like, you know how you needed help with the bank? Like, I can't help you with that if I'm not the power of attorney. And you

Leslie Sultan (32:51)

Exactly.

Pauline (32:51)

know, she would say, But you are. And I'm like, But only if dad is gone. Otherwise, I have to come over, pick him up, carry him to the bank with me.

Please don't make this more complicated for me than it needs to be.

Leslie Sultan (33:05)

Yeah, and I had to go through that because my mom, she passed away last year, but she had dementia and

Pauline (33:10)

Sorry.

Leslie Sultan (33:11)

she declined.

Megan (33:11)

I'm sorry.

Leslie Sultan (33:12)

Thank you. Um, you know, we had to go through her documents and luckily she like I said, my family's good at this stuff. she had all her documents in place, but she appointed her brother as primary and me as secondary, and then he got diagnosed with cancer and he was in a rehab, and so now I had to get proof that she was incapacitated, plus proof that he was incapacitated.

Megan (33:30)

Mm.

Leslie Sultan (33:31)

So I'm running around getting all these doctors' notes in order for me to now

Megan (33:34)

Which can be tricky if they if maybe in the morning they have seem like they're in good shape, but at night, it can be really hard to get that proof.

Leslie Sultan (33:42)

Right.

Pauline (33:43)

it's so complicated and it changes. Like my parents thought they did a good job six years ago and there were things that they didn't anticipate, including laws changing. Right? The one big beautiful whatever it's called act has

things in it that make some of the stuff that they had in their trust not as efficient as it could be today. So now it has to be redone for I'm sure you have

Leslie Sultan (34:14)

Yeah we are

Pauline (34:15)

a legal word for that, but

Leslie Sultan (34:17)

Amend it. Probably trust the amendments. Um, yeah, we recommend typically people review their trust every three years, certainly sooner if there's been a change in family dynamics. And you know, classic example is the power of attorney form was changed in 2021. The state of New York created a new form because the banks were rejecting the old form. So people say, I did my power of attorney in 2015. Well, that's great. There's a likelihood it's gonna be rejected. Let's just do a new one.

and then from state to state it varies, right? I had a lot of difficulty using my mom's California power of attorney when I moved her to New York. and you know different states have different forms. So it you know always best to update them, you know, meet with an attorney, review them, and and make sure you've got state compliant forms.

Pauline (35:04)

So you're not just finding an attorney for like a one off. This is somebody you want to have a relationship with?

Leslie Sultan (35:11)

Yeah, typically. And I I you know, this sounds funny, but like a lot of people come to us 'cause they're like, you're young, you know, I've had attorneys that died, right? And and so we see this all the time. This attorney died. I don't know where my will is,

Megan (35:23)

Also being

a mom I'm sure might feel comforting to some people, especially when they're having to make decisions like who where would my children go if something happened to me? feeling like somebody understands that fear and that need, I think it's probably I would find that really comforting.

Leslie Sultan (35:41)

Yeah, and I think for parents the biggest issue is well, it's hard to think of a guardian and a trustee, who's gonna raise my kids and has good financial skills. And and the truth of the matter that most people don't realize is those can be two different people, So the person raising

Megan (35:56)

Mm.

Leslie Sultan (35:56)

your child isn't necessarily the person holding the bag

Right? And we can intentionally plan. Like my sister's great. She loves my children to death, but she's not so good with money. But my brother-in-law, you know, he's really great with money, but you want to be a great parent, So we give him

Megan (36:11)

Yeah.

Leslie Sultan (36:12)

the bag and we give them the kids. And they just communicate and work together. And so I think once people figure that out, it's one more hurdle that they've overcome.

Megan (36:21)

What is something

that if you've chosen, like you've decided, let's say I want my sister to do this, my brother-in-law to do this, how do we navigate that conversation or introduce that conversation?

Pauline (36:31)

before you answer that, I have to just interject one thing. Not only are they good with finances, but they can handle people asking them for money and maybe even aggressively

Megan (36:42)

Mm.

Pauline (36:43)

asking them for money, right? Because I had to think like who would be able to like manage my kid being like, No, I want the Lamborghini. Give me the money now.

Megan (36:53)

Mm. uh

Pauline (36:55)

So

Leslie Sultan (36:55)

Yes.

Pauline (36:55)

there's like a lot of decision making about.

Who you're gonna ask. And then yeah, I'd love to hear like how you suggest asking people. Like, sorry, I'm gonna

leave you with a mess.

Leslie Sultan (37:06)

My partner Christina San Martino tells her story. You know, we all have our stories, but her mom died also. so we're both moms and we're both daughters of moms who passed away, so we're all up in it, and then business owners, which is a whole nother conversation. But she was appointed the trustee for her and her brother.

And of course her brother wanted the money. He was younger. That's why she was chosen and he wanted the money right away. And so it was in a really she was in a really awkward position where it's like, do I honor mom's wishes or do I, sever the relationship with my brother? And, you know, in some cases she wound up giving in and just saying, like, look, here you're gonna and he did, he learned his lesson because he he got the money and he spent it, and he's like, I wish he would have held it. And she's like, Yeah, but I valued your relationship more than that. So

she had to make a choice and it not an easy one. So to your point, it's it's really important that you can handle the pressure and and deal with the family dynamics. in terms of the conversation, I mean, you know, we we say you just you gotta start with having the conversation, but I would love to hear from your guys' perspective, you know, again, going back to what are the fears, what are the what are the obstacles and how would you advise people to to have these conversations?

Megan (38:17)

Ooh, interesting. well, I think about myself. Like I have youngish children, not really little children. and like we've considered, like, we not only did we consider, we had a conversation. honestly, we chose the people who were a closer to other family members so that our kids could really continue that other relationships. They had the space

To be able to handle our children without having to uproot their entire lives, you know, like that they could keep some stability in their life. And we figured they would say yes. Honestly.

Pauline (38:56)

How did you

ask them?

Megan (38:58)

I believe I called my sister-in-law. It's my it's my husband's brother's sister. And I was like, because when our kids were firstborn, Keith's brother wasn't married. And so it was somebody else, you know? And then as they got older, they had their own house, their kids, they have plenty of space, and it was like, oh, this makes more sense. So we kind of revisited it with them and said,

Hey, FYI, you know, in the off chance. Yeah, well, the I know, I

Pauline (39:26)

I baked you this lovely chocolate cake. Can you please take my kids if I die?

Megan (39:31)

know, it's hard. Like, we've been asked to do that for other people too. And it is a hard conversation. You think you would just be like, Yeah, of course. But there are considerations. Like, where would we live? Would we still be able to have our jobs? Would we

have to consider moving where they are versus us. What would be the best choice for them? And so that is a really difficult conversation. But it's I think choosing the people who are emotionally in touch enough to be able to handle the gravity of the situation. And honestly, for me, the I trust that they would be able there to emotionally support my children through a really difficult time.

Pauline (40:16)

I mean, I think that's the biggest pitch for estate planning for parents is like this is your opportunity to influence what your child's life might look like

Leslie Sultan (40:28)

Mm.

Pauline (40:29)

should this unfortunate thing happen. Cause it happens. People die all the time. I I think I said it to Leslie when I met her. There's a commercial that I hear on the radio all the time. We're

We're all gonna die. I'm gonna die. You're gonna die. We're all

Megan (40:43)

Ha ha ha

Pauline (40:44)

gonna die. And it's true. It's the only guarantee in life.

Megan (40:49)

Yeah.

Yeah. And we should just start talking about it more so we're not so uncomfortable with it, right?

Leslie Sultan (40:54)

Exactly.

I think that's it. Yeah, and it's I mean, the not talking about it does nobody a service. you've gotta just take it heads on. And as if you know, a lot of my clients say, uh I'm so glad I did this, I have peace of mind. Right. There's just this sense of like, I did it, you know,

and and

Megan (41:12)

Yeah.

Leslie Sultan (41:12)

we tell them you might change your mind, you might have a falling out with someone if you do come back or redo your documents, but at least you've got something. You've got it on in written down.

Pauline (41:21)

One

other peace of mind thing that I just recently heard or thought about as a parent of driving children. Is that that purse sort of protects your property from creditors,

Megan (41:34)

Mm.

Pauline (41:36)

including like I don't know, if there's an accident and it goes beyond your insurance, could they come after your house if it's in a trust versus if it's in your pocket.

Leslie Sultan (41:46)

That's a tricky one. So this is why we don't typically put cars

in the trust, is because

a car is more of a liability than an asset, right? You hit someone, they're coming after the owner. You don't want them going after the purse. You want them going after

the owner of the car, which means your pockets, right? So you want to limit what's in your pockets and let the let them come after you. unfortunately, if I'm carrying the bag, you know, it's if everything's in my purse, I'm carrying the bag and I get in the accident.

They can go after my bag, right? They a judge

Pauline (42:15)

Mm-hmm.

Leslie Sultan (42:16)

is gonna say if you can write the checks, you can pay this person.

Megan (42:19)

Mm.

Leslie Sultan (42:20)

what we call asset protection is a little bit of a myth when it comes to like basic estate planning. and unfortunately, this is a very hot topic and it gets kind of misused, but there's really not asset protection, especially for me as the grantor or the creator. Now, my kids, on the other hand, if the money's being held in the bag for them.

And I always do kind of what you mentioned, Pauline, I I distribute to my children at ages 25, 30, and 35. So they get a portion at 25, another portion at 30, balance at 35, and everything else is held until that time. So if they're 21 and they're in a car accident, nobody's allowed to go after the bag because it's still in the purse until they're 25. Now, once they're 25 and the trustee distributes one third, that's essentially in their pockets, they're going after the pockets. But they can't go after

Megan (43:05)

The one third,

but they can't get it after the

Leslie Sultan (43:06)

uh

Right. As long as it's controlled by someone else, there is some asset protection.

Pauline (43:12)

So they would have to then take their money and put it into a new trust if you like.

Leslie Sultan (43:16)

Well, technically

they put into a new trust and have someone else be the trustee, which not not a lot of young people want to do that, right? Right.

Megan (43:22)

Yeah, they're like, No, this is my money, yeah.

Pauline (43:25)

Yeah,

I don't even wanna do it. I don't wanna do it and I'm I uh never mind, I'm still a young person.

Megan (43:26)

Oh

so

Leslie, if there's one thing that a parent could do now to protect their future. And obviously we talked about a lot of things, but to protect the future of their children, what would you suggest the next the next right thing to do is?

Leslie Sultan (43:49)

Yeah, definitely I would recommend speaking with an estate planning attorney in your area. maybe even talk to a couple of them. Find the one that's right for you. There's a lot of attorneys out there. we're not one size fits all. Estate planning is not one size fits all. Make sure you're working with someone that communicates with you, that you like, that you know works with your style. Um, and and find out what's your what's your what's best for you. Because like I said, if you're an apartment owner, apartment renter,

you're probably not gonna want to trust. If you've got a house and you've got a business, you might need a trust. so it's really, you know, getting that personalized uh counsel from an attorney. So yeah, but look someone up in your area,

Megan (44:26)

Great advice.

Leslie Sultan (44:27)

do a couple interviews and go with the person that you feel works best with your style.

Pauline (44:32)

Yeah, 'cause you're gonna need a relationship with that person.

Leslie Sultan (44:35)

Yeah.

Megan (44:36)

As much as I thought I was prepared,

now I've got some more work to do.

Leslie Sultan (44:39)

Yeah

Pauline (44:40)

Yes.

Sometimes our

podcast causes anxiety. We apologize for anybody experiencing an increase in anxiety at this moment.

And we remind you that anxiety is not always bad. Sometimes it is protective. So thank you for listening to our podcast. And there's more where that came from. We'll see you next time. Thank you so much, Leslie.

Leslie Sultan (45:00)

Thanks for having me.