Pauline (00:54)

Hi, welcome back. I am Pauline Walfisch and I am excited for today's episode. I'm joined today by my faithful co-host, Megan Nelson.

Megan (01:04)

Hi

Today we are here with Sarah Rosen. She is a licensed clinical social worker and certified sex therapist who specializes in sexual health, intimacy, and relationship dynamics. Sarah holds a master's degree in social work and a master's in human sexuality.

Sarah works extensively with individuals and couples navigating sexual concerns, desire discrepancies, identity exploration, and life transitions that impact intimacy. She often helps clients untangle how anxiety, body image, and intrusive thoughts show up in the bedroom. Today, Sarah is joining us to talk about sex and pregnancy.

Welcome, Sarah!

Sara Rosen, LCSW, M.Ed, CST (01:45)

Thank

you so much for having me. It's wonderful to be here. And you know, right now, I'm a sex therapist who happens to be eight months pregnant. So I qualified to speak on this topic today.

Pauline (01:54)

Woo hoo!

Megan (01:58)

Yeah, this is like a rare stars aligning kind of moment, right?

Sara Rosen, LCSW, M.Ed, CST (02:03)

Absolutely. Absolutely.

Pauline (02:05)

Right,

when we reached out to Sarah, she was like, sure, I'd love to do it, but let's do it soon because I'm gonna have this baby any day So we're recording in the middle of a snowstorm and we thought like, well, we know where we'll all be on Sunday.

Maybe a good bedroom day.

Sara Rosen, LCSW, M.Ed, CST (02:21)

Absolutely, absolutely. I feel like a lot of babies are going to be made today. What happens when there's snow storms?

Megan (02:26)

That does happen. Snowstorms. When else does it happen? COVID. People were...

Sara Rosen, LCSW, M.Ed, CST (02:33)

I think sometimes during blackouts, people are stuck at home. There's a baby boom. So I think nine months, you know, from today, we're going to see lots of babies being born. You need to stay warm, right?

Pauline (02:36)

Mm-hmm.

Megan (02:46)

That's true, yeah.

Sara Rosen, LCSW, M.Ed, CST (02:48)

Yeah,

Pauline (02:48)

Great, great way to stay warm.

Sara Rosen, LCSW, M.Ed, CST (02:50)

absolutely. Yeah, so I've got lots of comment on pregnancy and sexuality and it's something that I know is really difficult to talk about because It can be challenging especially for women to separate their parenting brains and their erotic brains Especially when when they collide but we've got ways around everything and as sex therapists You know part of our job is to be super super creative

Megan (03:17)

What is normal when it comes to pregnancy and sexual relationships, sexual identity, all of that?

Sara Rosen, LCSW, M.Ed, CST (03:25)

Sure. So it's very normal for your sexuality to fluctuate even throughout your pregnancy. And some people, feel, some people feel more in tune with their body and more turned on than they typically are. And some people feel so disconnected from their bodies. And that can change from the first trimester to third trimester. it's so important to listen to your body, to not feel bad about the stage that you're in. And

You know, I think that with pregnancy, there's a lot of sexy things about pregnancy, there are a lot of unsexy things about pregnancy, and just with sexuality and women in general, it's important that we don't expect it to be so spontaneous, the way it typically is with men. And we've gotta think about...

What is foreplay for women? A lot of times it's going to start outside the bedroom. A lot of times it's doing the dishes or after baby comes it's changing the diapers, know, for especially...

Pauline (04:23)

Nothing more sexy than a partner taking care of your baby so you can rest.

Sara Rosen, LCSW, M.Ed, CST (04:30)

Absolutely, And I'll work with a lot of new parents and they'll come to therapy with me because they're like, you know, our sex lives have changed drastically since having a baby. We're not having sex. I'll have to ask the typically the male partner, well, you know, what's, what's, what's going on? What is your part and how much you're helping out? And I've heard answers like, I've bought her all these sex toys and I keep them charged and she doesn't want to have sex. And I'm like.

Let's think about how sexy her day is. How many diapers is she changing? Is she doing the dishes? Let's really expand our definition of foreplay to outside of the bedroom. But during pregnancy, I think it's important to be kind with yourself, but also really to expand your definition of sex. And sometimes, like...

penetrative sex is just going to be a lot of work and when you have a more limited view of what sexuality is which which many of us do because that's how we're socialized to think of sex as penetration it feels like a lot of work and you're like I can barely get off the couch right now like I'm not doing that

Megan (05:30)

Yeah, I can't walk down the block. How am I supposed to have intercourse right now? Yeah.

Sara Rosen, LCSW, M.Ed, CST (05:33)

Right?

Right? Absolutely. So expanding your definition of sex could be bringing it back to the basics and, you know, hand stuff, mutual masturbation, toys. I highly, highly recommend just trying different things.

Because something that doesn't take as much physical effort is if you're, you know, mutual masturbation, using a toy on yourself while your partner is stimulating themselves. And, you know, if you're really kissing or touching each other, there are easier ways to connect that you're going to get those same benefits and feel that same intimacy and closeness. And it's...

Especially if you're having your first child, you know, it's it's important to take advantage of those moments where you can connect and be intimate together before it becomes a lot more difficult, when you already have children, you're pregnant it's a little bit more difficult, but still doable. And it can be so easy to say, no, that's going to be too much work right now. But I find that a lot of people feel that, when they when they say yes and are able to be a little bit more open-minded and say like, okay, I'll use a toy or we could just do hand stuff. They get a lot out of that and they wind up feeling very close with their partners and are glad that they gave in in that way.

Megan (06:46)

I do hear a lot of people say that I don't have the drive to have sex, but once I do I enjoy it,

Sara Rosen, LCSW, M.Ed, CST (06:54)

Yes, absolutely. Sometimes we forget how much we like sex. It's easy to forget and sometimes it's not until you're doing it where you're like, I'm glad I did this. I'm really glad.

Some advice that someone gave me that I found to be very helpful and that I give to my clients is that, you know, especially if you're going to have a vaginal delivery, sex is going to feel different for a while. And I know that typically you're cleared to have sex after six weeks, but that's, that's difficult. It's for, for a lot of women, it's still going to be very painful at that point. And you know, some people wait months. So taking advantage of having the... the capacity to have good vaginal sex while you can. Like it's, it can be so easy to say no, and be like, no, I just don't feel like doing that. But you know, I encourage people to lean in as much as they can.

Pauline (07:39)

do you find you have to convince people that sex is not just penetration?

Sara Rosen, LCSW, M.Ed, CST (07:44)

Yes, yes, very much so. I do have to help people relearn and expand their definitions of sex. And also, I have to encourage a lot of couples to talk about sex outside of the bedroom. Talk about it during breakfast or lunch, and a lot of people see it as, only talk about sex while we're having sex. But it is difficult to have a vulnerable conversation with someone about your dislikes when they're inside you.

Pauline (08:09)

Hahaha

Megan (08:09)

It's also difficult for a lot of people to talk about what they like, especially women. there's that layer of shame, from society that you're not supposed to tell them what you like. But also partners don't have a magic wand. they don't know,

Sara Rosen, LCSW, M.Ed, CST (08:24)

No, no they don't know and everyone's body is so different. You know one partner could enjoy this and another partner you're with they experience sex in a totally different way. And you know only about 25 % of women experience vaginal orgasms.

So that's why, you know, rule of thumb, she comes first. It's a really good book by Ian Kerner. I think his wife is very lucky. It's just about female orgasm. And it is...

Pauline (08:48)

you.  So why?  Why do you say she comes first?

Sara Rosen, LCSW, M.Ed, CST (08:57)

For a lot of women, it's best when the focus is on clitoral stimulation first and foremost. Because it's just... It can be tougher for women to orgasm than it is for men.

Megan (09:08)

And if it's not focused on female orgasm, then it becomes like a default of, ⁓ let's just get it over with, let him enjoy it. This is about him, not about the couple and enjoying sex,

Sara Rosen, LCSW, M.Ed, CST (09:18)

And you know, another disconnect that I see between men and women, so most women... are not orgasming from penetration, you know, can still enjoy penetration but not orgasm from it, or maybe you need a combo of vaginal and clitoral stimulation. There's a lot to explore there. But a lot of men feel like, well, I need to last as long as possible and my penis should be as big as humanly possible. And a lot of women will say, I just need you to focus on my clit. I just need you to start with that. And the man will say, so you need me to last longer and I was like what is happening this conversation and I've seen that play out so many times. It is like men are obsessed with penis size and you know I think a lot of that is from porn and porn is great can be a wonderful tool but it's fantasy it's not sex ed.

Pauline (10:16)

Yeah, that's a great point though. Like, there's not a lot of sex education besides porn.

Sara Rosen, LCSW, M.Ed, CST (10:21)

⁓ no, there certainly is not. Again, I'm a big fan of porn as a tool, but you have to understand what you're looking at and what's realistic and what isn't. It's fantasy.

Pauline (10:31)

Right. But if that's the only thing that you've been exposed to that creates your knowledge base, and don't have opportunities to listen to our podcast or sit with a sex therapist or do your own research. Like if the only information that you're getting is from pornography, then you think like that's what you're supposed to be doing. 

Sara Rosen, LCSW, M.Ed, CST (10:55)

Does not depict a lot of clitoral stimulation or not as the main event and it does not really depict realistic female orgasm So I think that even you know women who grow botching a certain kind of poor and they're like, okay This is what sex is supposed to look like. This is what I'm supposed to like rather than you know feeling like they can be vulnerable and explore what works for them, which could be so many different things. So our introductions to sex, they tend to be porn, sex ed if you're lucky enough to have it, and sex ed is not meant to be pleasure focused. It's very fear based. Yes!

Pauline (11:30)

Mm-hmm, yes, don't get pregnant. Don't get pregnant.

Megan (11:30)

Yeah, it's abstinence generally,

Sara Rosen, LCSW, M.Ed, CST (11:34)

So, and the thing, now I went to an all girls Catholic school, and that's what actually got me really interested in studying sexuality because I had abstinence only sex education. And there was something about it, I'm like, I feel like there's something being misunderstood here. And the more that I was told that this is terrible, this is bad, you wait till marriage, I'm like, I just, I wanna explore this more. And that actually got me started on my journey. Yes.

Pauline (11:58)

Like every adolescent, the more that you tell them that they can't do something, the more curious they get.

Sara Rosen, LCSW, M.Ed, CST (12:04)

when I was 18 I started working at a sex store in Manhattan and it was this really really upscale like sex boutique I loved it but and a lot and this was like early 2000 so a lot of older women would come in and they were referred by their sex therapist gynecologist and women who were just so shy and looking to purchase a toy because they had been married for 30 years and had never had an orgasm

I'm like, let me show you a diagram. Let's, you know, let's talk about how this works. And I found that I just, loved, loved, loved being able to have these vulnerable conversations with women. I'm like, I want to do this forever on a clinical level. So that's why I got my master's in social work and my master's in human sexuality and then other specializations so that I could really, really focus in on this and be super specialized. So it is.

It brings me so much joy to make the world a more orgasmic place. I feel like I'm doing my job there, you know?

Megan (13:03)

Well, it's so interesting, like when you were going back from talking about the abstinence only, like that, I just got the picture, it's like women are told don't have sex, it's terrible, and then once you get married it's supposed to be pleasurable. Like, but there's that huge disconnect, so how could it possibly be pleasurable just because you're married, right?

Sara Rosen, LCSW, M.Ed, CST (13:25)

And how confusing is that? And now with abstinence only education, there's so much fear about if you have sex, you will get pregnant. And then once you're trying to get pregnant, it's like, wait, this is not that easy. There's so much tracking and there's like four days a month that can actually happen and all these things have to, know, especially as you get older, like all these things have to really fall into place in order to become pregnant. I'm like, I was just lied to over and over again in high school.

Pauline (13:51)

That's right, right, because the chances of getting pregnant every month are like...

I think it's like less than 20 % if you're of a younger age. And when you get a little bit older, it's like 2 % chance.

Sara Rosen, LCSW, M.Ed, CST (14:05)

And that's why, you know, I thought when I came off of birth control like, oh, get pregnant right away. And that's just not what happened. And that was, you know, quite an interesting lesson for me. But, you know, I had this client that I worked with and she'll never know how helpful this was to me. And she...

She talked about how it took her a year to get pregnant and she really gave up hope and then she was getting married, she was trying on wedding dresses and she got really sick and she was throwing up and then she's just like, no, it can't be because I've been trying for a year and then she realized she was pregnant. Oh, she's got a beautiful baby. got a beautiful family. And of course, you know, I wasn't going to share my experience with her, but I'm like, that was so helpful in a time where I was losing hope for myself. as therapists, it's amazing how much we can get from our clients and you know of course they don't they don't get to know most of the time how much they they give to us but it's a

Pauline (15:01)

That's right, that's right. I mean, we have the best job and also like we learn so much from our clients and you're right, we can't tell them. So if you're out there and you're listening and you're wondering if your therapist appreciates you, we really, really do.

Sara Rosen, LCSW, M.Ed, CST (15:14)

We do! We do so much! This is just the best job.

Megan (15:19)

Sarah, going back to when you were talking about taking foreplay out of the bedroom, what does that look like?

Sara Rosen, LCSW, M.Ed, CST (15:25)

Oh my gosh, it can be so many different things. I mean, my best example is doing the dishes, changing diapers. But how can you make your partner's life easier and not so focused on sex? Because when it's so focused on, I got you sex toys, I did this, I planned this, it can feel like more pressure than anything else. But when you say, you sleep in today, I'm gonna...

walk the dogs in the snowstorm and you know I'm gonna have breakfast made for you. That's foreplay as far as I'm concerned. That is foreplay. Whatever you can do to lighten your partner's load and that's how you can even give them the space to... Yes! Yeah absolutely.

Pauline (16:05)

No pun intended.

Sara Rosen, LCSW, M.Ed, CST (16:09)

I think that, yeah, and that's a big part of expanding our definition of sex and foreplay. What can you do to make your partner's day easier? Think outside of the bedroom, way outside of the bedroom. Then you know, something like, I don't know, on your way home from work, picking up flowers just because. Like those things really do matter.

Megan (16:27)

what was the initial connection around and if it was like video games or you know, they used to go and hang out at a certain place together or they went on their first date here and what would it be like to go back there and what would it be like to see that again? Yeah, that's true. Yeah

Sara Rosen, LCSW, M.Ed, CST (16:44)

nostalgia can be so sexy. Yeah, revisiting where you had your first date is so romantic.

Pauline (16:53)

Yeah, so sex starts like in the brain and in the soul before it starts in the reproductive organs.

Sara Rosen, LCSW, M.Ed, CST (17:02)

Absolutely, your biggest sex organ is between your ears and not between your legs.

Pauline (17:07)

love that. I don't think I've ever heard anybody say that.

Megan (17:07)

I know

Sara Rosen, LCSW, M.Ed, CST (17:08)

I mean, that's a good one, right?

Megan (17:10)

that's good one. That's definitely, yeah.

Sara Rosen, LCSW, M.Ed, CST (17:12)

Yeah. Yeah!

Pauline (17:13)

Say that again for anybody who missed it.

Sara Rosen, LCSW, M.Ed, CST (17:16)

Your biggest sex organ is between your ears, not between your legs. You have to be in a mental space to even be able to feel connected to your body.

Pauline (17:25)

Yeah. So that brings us into like, sex and pregnancy, right? Because like, that's why we asked you to be here today, eight months pregnant to talk about not solely your personal lived experience, right, but all of the knowledge that you bring into the room, because a lot of people even wonder whether they can have sex when they're pregnant.

Sara Rosen, LCSW, M.Ed, CST (17:27)

And that's a yes...

Unless you're doctor specifically tells you that you are not medically cleared to have sex, I think sex is so important to feel connected to your body and to have orgasms. And not that that always has to be the goal, but why not? Why not? It's a great stress reliever and it's free. In this economy, have more orgasms.

Megan (18:11)

When you're to have the baby,

Sara Rosen, LCSW, M.Ed, CST (18:13)

it's going to be different in every part of your pregnancy. know, first trimester you've, well, I think second trimester you tend to have more energy. I know it's different for everyone. Third trimester, it's rough. It's rough, but you know, it's doable. Maybe that's where you really need to expand your definition a bit more.

Megan (18:31)

So when it comes to maybe a couple had a very active sexual life before pregnancy and one partner, the non-birthing partner, maybe still has that expectation or energy and things have changed a lot for the birthing partner.

Sara Rosen, LCSW, M.Ed, CST (18:49)

Yeah.

Megan (18:49)

That doesn't necessarily mean incompatibility, but how do we kind of talk about that? How do they talk and expand their version of that?

Sara Rosen, LCSW, M.Ed, CST (18:58)

So for the non-birthing partner that's going to have, you if they have a higher sex drive, I think it's okay to take some space to grieve the change in your sex life. It's okay to feel that way. It's not okay to pressure your partner and make them feel bad about it, but yeah, have a little space to grieve that. It's a big change. But you can always take care of yourself, you know?

you can always masturbate and, and, and fill that need for yourself. That's not off the table. Why not? So maybe during your partner's pregnancy, you're going to be doing a little more of that and that's okay.

Pauline (19:34)

and it doesn't last forever.

Sara Rosen, LCSW, M.Ed, CST (19:36)

It does not last forever. Thank goodness. Thank goodness it does not. And it changes. that, you know, maybe you have even like a, well, I think most people, they watch their partner give birth and they have like an even deeper respect and love for them. It's so beautiful.

Megan (19:51)

And when I think the tools that you learn from changing your sexual life during pregnancy are really valuable that can be carried on postpartum too. when you don't have time, when a baby is interrupting things, when you are exhausted and you want some alone time but it feels strange, you know.

Sara Rosen, LCSW, M.Ed, CST (20:11)

And sometimes, when couples they are not having sex, then that becomes a routine and they haven't had sex in a long time or, you their sex is very limited. It's tough to reestablish that routine and something that a lot of sex therapists use. I'm a big fan of sensate focus and it's about reestablishing intimacy from scratch. So a lot of times,

It just becomes so goal oriented and you have so much anxiety around it that we do this thing that's called spectatoring It's coined by Masters and Johnson back in the 70s. It's when you are Having sex, but you're not really in your body focusing on the sensations. You're like watching over like How do I look how's my body changed or am I gonna erection or am I this or am I that or what is the grocery list? didn't do this So a sensate focus is about putting yourself back in your body

And there's a series of exercises that I'll have couples do. And the first step starts with, okay, you're gonna be, you're gonna have underwear on.

and you're gonna take a timer for 10 minutes each and you're going to not massage each other's bodies for the sake of giving each other pleasure, but it's more like tracing each other's bodies. like maybe you'll take your fingers and trace them over their arms or face or other parts of their bodies and you're only thinking about what does their body feel like on your fingertips? What parts are smooth or rough or hairy or not? And it's a way of being

Pauline (21:39)

Hmm.

Sara Rosen, LCSW, M.Ed, CST (21:45)

intimate with your partner without having any kind of pressure. And then, yes, yes, yes. And it's really, really productive. you know, especially for when women feel more pressure to perform and they're just not in it, this can be a really, really nice way of saying

Pauline (21:50)

It's like mindfulness exercise.

Sara Rosen, LCSW, M.Ed, CST (22:07)

we're gonna be intimate with having any kind of expectations. And when you're doing this exercise, sex is off the table for the day. It's not even an option. Yep, yep, that's how I'll do it with couples so that there is absolutely zero pressure. It's just about being intimate together without, yeah, without any goals, any...

Pauline (22:14)

for the whole day, not just during the exercise.

Megan (22:22)

No expectation. Right.

I can imagine that could be helpful too with people that might be struggling with erectile dysfunction or something like that, that the stress and the pressure can create more of a challenge, but this is like you take the pressure off the table.

Sara Rosen, LCSW, M.Ed, CST (22:40)

It is fantastic for erectile dysfunction, which is one of my favorite things. I know it's a weird thing to say out loud. I love erectile dysfunction because it's so resolvable. And it's often not a physiological issue. It usually has to do with anxiety. And that can be treated. So when someone comes in for erectile dysfunction, it's so exciting. So I'm like, we're going to get you better. We're really, going to get you back to where you want to be.

Megan (23:03)

must be so validating for them to hear too, because I know it can be so scary, I'm sure.

Sara Rosen, LCSW, M.Ed, CST (23:07)

Yeah,yeah. And with that, I'll have a lot of guys that are like, well, I don't masturbate anymore because if I even can get an erection, I just save it for  my wife or I feel bad. I'm like, no, no, no, no. That is the opposite direction that we want to go in because that only causes more shame around the way you feel about your penis.

Pauline (23:14)

Yeah.

Yeah, and when you can say it out loud and talk to somebody about it, you actually can get help.

Sara Rosen, LCSW, M.Ed, CST (23:28)

and it takes so much vulnerability. And most men, they'll suffer with erectile dysfunction for years before they go to therapy for it. Which is really sad, because it's something that's so resolvable.

Pauline (23:38)

Yeah.

Megan (23:39)

and it impacts their whole life, their whole family, their partner, everything.

Sara Rosen, LCSW, M.Ed, CST (23:43)

Yes, and then you have their partner that feels like, well, there's gotta be something wrong with me that you're not attracted to me. And then really they're going into sex like, okay, I need to get up or my partner is gonna feel like I'm not attracted to them. Erections do not respond to anxiety. It's not gonna happen. It's not gonna happen.

So then, know, bring it back to sensei focus as, you know, we take it in different steps as the weeks progress. And there's one step where you're going to trace over each other's genitals, but without the goal of sex. Sex is still off the table while you're doing these exercises. And, you know, we don't really get the opportunity to explore our partner's genitals in a non-sexual way. So it's just...

Pauline (24:22)

I mean, I think people don't have enough opportunities for their own genitals.

Sara Rosen, LCSW, M.Ed, CST (24:26)

The amount of women that I have to tell, like have you looked at your vulva Do you know what she looks like? They are like no, why would I do that? Like all right, here are the positions you can get in in front of the mirror. We just gotta, we gotta take a tour. But no, you're absolutely right about that.

Pauline (24:38)

Yeah. So, yeah.

So talking about that, you know, you're sensing exercise during pregnancy, right? How does that change that experience when, you know, the parts of the body that they're tracing maybe have moving life inside of them?

Sara Rosen, LCSW, M.Ed, CST (24:56)

⁓ my gosh, it is, it's different but I think it's still so, it's so grounding. It's so grounding. Yeah, it's really interesting when the baby responds in those moments.

Pauline (25:06)

Yeah, or when the baby responds during penetrative sex.

Sara Rosen, LCSW, M.Ed, CST (25:07)

it.

Yes, yes, ⁓ so that is my, to the prompt of what is something that you are not expecting, I was not prepared. Yes, that no one told me was that your baby will move around and kick and respond while you're having sex. ⁓

Megan (25:18)

No mom for you, yeah.

Sara Rosen, LCSW, M.Ed, CST (25:28)

And it is, it's just a very jarring experience when the erotic brain and parenting brain have to collide in that way. But the reframe that I like is that, you know what, the baby is very lucky to have two parents who love each other and spend time together and feel good with each other. But that can be very jarring at first. And I can't believe with how much I talk about sex and not just, you know, with my friend, with everyone in my life, I just like to be very open about it. Not one person, not one person warned me about that. I had to learn that on my own. this is different. Okay. All right.

Pauline (26:06)

Yes, and if a sex therapist didn't know that and had to learn that on their own, then what the hell does that say for the rest of us?

Sara Rosen, LCSW, M.Ed, CST (26:12)

I know

No one's talking about that. you know, I'm very blunt with the way I talk about sex. I was getting my hair done and my hairdresser was like, so how's the pregnancy going? I'm like, no one told me that the baby will move while you're having sex. And you'll feel it.

Megan (26:28)

yeah. You strongly support compartmentalize So you're like, okay, that's over there.

Sara Rosen, LCSW, M.Ed, CST (26:30)

Yeah, she's like, think. Yeah,

she's so funny.

Pauline (26:34)

Or she was thinking like, I'm impressed you're actually still having sex.

Megan (26:39)

you

Sara Rosen, LCSW, M.Ed, CST (26:40)

my gosh, yeah, yeah. But the more I talk about it people, people are like, yeah, no, that happens. yeah, or I had to stop verbalizing to my partner when it was happening because it really was not helpful for them to know.

Megan (26:53)

Yeah,

have heard that where especially male partners would become concerned about hurting the baby or like even thinking about that and so that but sex during pregnancy is totally safe

Sara Rosen, LCSW, M.Ed, CST (27:05)

Yeah.

Right, and masturbation

during pregnancy is safe. Have that time where you can feel connected to yourself in that way.

Pauline (27:16)

if you ran into somebody and they said, what was the thing nobody told you?

Sara Rosen, LCSW, M.Ed, CST (27:21)

Your baby is going to move while you're having sex and make its presence known, and that is okay. There, I said it.

yeah.

Megan (27:28)

thank you so much for joining us today. We will see you again because we have more to talk about, but it's wonderful to have you on today.

Sara Rosen, LCSW, M.Ed, CST (27:34)

Yes, absolutely.

Thank you so much for having me. This has been such a fun conversation.

Pauline (27:41)

Thank you so much. We are going to continue this conversation and I hope our listeners come back for part two for more inside tips around sex and intimacy. So thank you and we'll see you soon. Stay tuned everybody.

Sara Rosen, LCSW, M.Ed, CST (27:55)

Thank you so much.