00:00:00:00 - 00:00:19:02

Speaker 1

You often talk about intuition and anxiety and in new moms. I feel like it's it's it's really it comes up so often this I, I as even as a therapist find really hard is when their intuition is right and there actually is something wrong. And then how do you manage anxiety after that.

00:00:19:04 - 00:00:38:04

Speaker 2

But if I ever feel like something's wrong with my kids and I feel like they need a doctor, I'd rather have peace in my brain. And that just gives me a peace of mind knowing, okay, she's fine. They're fine. Everything is okay. If it's going to make you feel better as a parent, then do it. Because what if, like, what if you didn't do it that one time?

00:00:38:06 - 00:00:54:13

Speaker 3

Welcome to our podcast where the rarely spoken truths finally get loud. I'm Megan Nelson and I'm Pauline Walfisch, and this is a therapist led podcast where naming the messy parts of life without judgment. Welcome to what? No. Mom told you.

00:00:54:15 - 00:01:26:07

Speaker 1

Hello and welcome back. I'm Pauline Wallfisch, here with my faithful co-host Meghan Nelson, and we are bringing you a special episode, live well not live, recorded in the studios of Press Record Studios with our dutiful cameraman and DJ's back there, Matt and Rich here in Carl Place. So if you're looking for a studio, check these guys out. But we are in studio for a very special episode with our very special guest.

00:01:26:12 - 00:01:33:02

Speaker 1

So I'm going to let Meghan have the honors to introduce our guest today. Hi everybody.

00:01:33:02 - 00:02:08:11

Speaker 4

I'm Meghan Nelson. So excited to be here today. We have a special guest, Victoria Caputo whoooo Victoria is a media personality, business owner, stylist, mom, mental health advocate, maternal mental health advocate and so much more. And Victoria has been really graciously honest about her experience publicly with postpartum anxiety. And we also and also advocated for resources on Long Island.

00:02:08:12 - 00:02:13:12

Speaker 4

And so we just wanted to have you here and we're so grateful that you came. Welcome.

00:02:13:14 - 00:02:14:13

Speaker 1

Thanks for having me.

00:02:14:13 - 00:02:32:16

Speaker 2

And I'm really excited. This is something that I love to do. I don't get to do it as often as as I would like. So, any opportunity that I can get to talk to anybody who's watching, you know, just spread the word and let them know everything's okay in the end. Oh.

00:02:32:19 - 00:02:34:15

Speaker 4

And you used to have your own podcast.

00:02:34:16 - 00:02:40:02

Speaker 2

I used to have my own podcast. Yeah, it was, called, Is It Bedtime Yet.

00:02:40:03 - 00:02:41:14

Speaker 4

Nice. Oh my gosh. Perfect.

00:02:41:14 - 00:02:42:20

Speaker 1

And my favorite time.

00:02:42:20 - 00:03:01:18

Speaker 2

I know my older one always says to my, my he goes mom, are you gonna put Meadow down? Can she go to bed yet? And I'm like, oh, this is perfect. But, yes, I did it with my friend Emma, and we loved doing it. It's just our lives are super chaotic right now, so it's on a little stand still. I would love to get back into it.

00:03:01:20 - 00:03:03:14

Speaker 2

But life.

00:03:03:18 - 00:03:04:05

Speaker 4

Yep.

00:03:04:07 - 00:03:04:23

Speaker 2

So.

00:03:05:01 - 00:03:05:10

Speaker 1

Yeah.

00:03:05:11 - 00:03:06:03

Speaker 2

Maybe one day.

00:03:06:05 - 00:03:15:08

Speaker 1

That's what happens with motherhood, right? Especially when you have so many ideas and you want to do so many things and it's like, okay, I can't do them all.

00:03:15:10 - 00:03:16:02

Speaker 4

At the same time.

00:03:16:07 - 00:03:21:03

Speaker 1

At the same time. So it's that like, it's not. No, it's just not now.

00:03:21:05 - 00:03:45:04

Speaker 2

Exactly. And and when people like people say, oh, you have it easy. Because when they get older, the older they are more more problems or the more stuff. And it's so true. Like, my daughter is going to be five, which is even crazy to say, but like now she's going to school and now we have this crazy routine every morning and I'm like, I'm like, this is only pre-K.

00:03:45:05 - 00:03:47:21

Speaker 2

What's going to happen when she's, you know.

00:03:48:02 - 00:03:49:14

Speaker 4

And breakfast happens every day.

00:03:49:18 - 00:03:51:13

Speaker 1

They want to be fed.

00:03:51:15 - 00:03:53:12

Speaker 2

Yeah. Yes.

00:03:53:15 - 00:03:55:00

Speaker 1

So schools, how many hours?

00:03:55:05 - 00:03:59:02

Speaker 2

So right now she's three days a week. 8:30 to 2:30. Oh, yeah.

00:03:59:03 - 00:04:05:16

Speaker 1

It's it's like awful. It's like by the time you get home, you're like, pretty much turning around, going right back.

00:04:05:22 - 00:04:07:19

Speaker 2

It's it's.

00:04:07:21 - 00:04:14:00

Speaker 4

It does get a little easier I think once elementary school once you get that like stretch of time.

00:04:14:02 - 00:04:15:20

Speaker 1

Yeah. Yeah.

00:04:15:22 - 00:04:22:11

Speaker 2

Like when they become more independent, you know, when they can get dressed themselves and brush your teeth, shower and all that good stuff.

00:04:22:11 - 00:04:23:12

Speaker 4

That's totally.

00:04:23:13 - 00:04:32:11

Speaker 1

Yeah. See? See, we have boys that doesn't that I don't know about in your house, but that didn't happen quickly.

00:04:32:13 - 00:04:37:14

Speaker 4

He's going to me if he knows what I'm going to say. This. This is embarrassing. But now I have to say.

00:04:37:19 - 00:04:38:09

Speaker 1

I.

00:04:38:11 - 00:04:41:04

Speaker 4

Have a feeling what you're gonna say. 11 year old doesn't know how to tie your shoes.

00:04:41:08 - 00:04:43:19

Speaker 2

Oh, I that's not what I thought you were going to say.

00:04:43:21 - 00:04:45:23

Speaker 4

Well, there's other things, too, that we can.

00:04:46:00 - 00:04:57:05

Speaker 1

I had to send my son to a neighbor to learn to tie his shoes because he, like, refused to let me teach him. And I was like, this is insane. You cannot go to school. I don't even remember how he was probably around the same age.

00:04:57:06 - 00:05:08:10

Speaker 4

It's like of the shoes were like slip in. And I'm like, yeah, and he's doing pre-algebra and it has no interest in learning how to tie his shoes. And I'm like, okay, we'll get there one day. I'm like, I'm sure he'll figure it out.

00:05:08:11 - 00:05:18:22

Speaker 1

My neighbor, my neighbor Kevin, if you're listening. Thank you. Taught my kid how to tie his shoes because. Mom doesn't know anything. Can’t can’t can't teach him.

00:05:18:22 - 00:05:29:23

Speaker 2

Like you said, there's always the slip ons. They have the canes, the crocs. So this is. And then, you know, my daughter wears ones with velcro. So she does it herself.

00:05:30:01 - 00:05:42:23

Speaker 1

Yeah. And the ones with velcro are way cooler. Like again my kids are older but like they had Lightning McQueen. There were no Lightning McQueen sneakers with laces. Yeah. Everything was Velcro.

00:05:43:01 - 00:05:46:17

Speaker 2

So the sensory issues too. So.

00:05:46:19 - 00:05:49:10

Speaker 4

Oh, yeah. Big time over here. Yeah, yeah.

00:05:49:11 - 00:05:56:01

Speaker 2

So that's a whole nother thing. I'm like, you know what? Just. She's like, what should I wear? I'm like these ones. No. Don't want. I'm like, then pick your own shoes. Whatever.

00:05:56:02 - 00:05:56:11

Speaker 4

Yeah.

00:05:56:15 - 00:05:57:13

Speaker 2

Wear what you want?

00:05:57:16 - 00:05:59:16

Speaker 1

I don't care. Yeah. Some battles are not worth fighting.

00:05:59:17 - 00:06:00:14

Speaker 2

Absolutely not.

00:06:00:16 - 00:06:24:18

Speaker 4

It's actually one of my favorite things to, like, go out in the wild and see kids who, like, clearly picked out their own outfits. Oh, I love it, love it. Let's rewind a little bit, because one thing you spent your some of your teenage years in front of the camera. Yes I did. I can't imagine what that was like for you.

00:06:24:20 - 00:06:58:02

Speaker 2

So we started, I want to say I was 14 or 15 years old, when we decided to pitch the show. So, we had a camera crew at the house. We, you know, filmed this whole trailer, and for about, like, 8 to 10 months, it got shipped out and sent to a bunch of networks. And we were set with one network, and then they dropped and then this one and this one.

00:06:58:02 - 00:07:07:19

Speaker 2

And so we ended up on TLC. And that went for pretty long run. Almost.

00:07:07:21 - 00:07:10:06

Speaker 4

Oh. How old am I?

00:07:10:08 - 00:07:12:23

Speaker 2

Okay. This was 17 years ago when this started.

00:07:13:01 - 00:07:13:19

Speaker 1

Oh my God.

00:07:13:21 - 00:07:16:14

Speaker 4

It's really scary to say.

00:07:16:15 - 00:07:23:06

Speaker 2

But. Yeah. So. And then I want to say.

00:07:23:08 - 00:07:35:01

Speaker 2

2020, I don't think because then my mom moved to another network for a year, and then with like, TV is not what it used

00:07:35:01 - 00:07:35:10

Speaker 4

to be. Yeah.

00:07:35:10 - 00:07:50:16

Speaker 2

It's a great thing is streaming streaming. So streaming is like super popular now. So like things, you know, whatever. Now my mom just tours, but yeah, I was on TV probably from 15 to.

00:07:50:17 - 00:07:51:16

Speaker 4

Oh, God.

00:07:51:17 - 00:07:57:12

Speaker 2

My wedding was on there, so I was 25, 20, like 26, 27. So over ten years.

00:07:57:12 - 00:08:08:15

Speaker 1

So you're whole, like, adolescence. Yeah. Gosh, you're so glad there were no cameras for my adolescence. Or very few, anyway. Well,

00:08:08:19 - 00:08:19:15

Speaker 4

I mean, I imagine that there's in some way, like, I'm guessing you get used to being in front of people. So you develop certain skills too.

00:08:19:16 - 00:08:47:02

Speaker 2

Well, that's what everyone said. Everyone's like, well, how do you, like, do around the cameras? And when I think back, it kind of become second nature. You know, in the beginning was kind of a little strange, but I was always myself. I never I was a little bit too much myself at some points. I remember me crying and ripping off the mic and having a mental breakdown and things like that a couple of times, but nonetheless, I mean, everybody that was behind the cameras becomes your family.

00:08:47:04 - 00:08:59:18

Speaker 2

Yeah, they're at your house five days a week. There's, you know, you're eating lunch with them. You're you're traveling with them, like, so when they're family, it feels so natural. And then the cameras are just there. They're just.

00:08:59:18 - 00:09:00:09

Speaker 4

there.

00:09:00:11 - 00:09:17:10

Speaker 2

You know? So I mean, obviously, you know, everyone's like, oh, is it really reality? And it is, you know, we set up the scene, but it's it's not you know, we're not being told what to say. We're not being told what to do. It's just okay, you're going to walk into your house and your mom's going to be there and there's going to be a conversation.

00:09:17:12 - 00:09:20:15

Speaker 2

You know, you have to set up something. You know, it's, you know, so really that was it.

00:09:20:15 - 00:09:24:07

Speaker 1

But nobody can tell what actually comes out of your mouth.

00:09:24:09 - 00:09:25:05

Speaker 2

No.

00:09:25:07 - 00:09:29:02

Speaker 4

And that's where editing comes into play.

00:09:29:04 - 00:09:30:08

Speaker 1

Yes.

00:09:30:10 - 00:09:34:01

Speaker 2

Oh, yeah. There was not not things, but yeah.

00:09:34:03 - 00:09:42:11

Speaker 4

I was telling Pauline tonight that I, it, I didn't watch it until Covid. It became my comfort watch.

00:09:42:16 - 00:09:42:22

Speaker 1

Oh.

00:09:42:23 - 00:09:44:16

Speaker 2

No, that does not give

00:09:44:16 - 00:09:46:13

Speaker 4

me comfort. No. Like it's.

00:09:46:13 - 00:09:49:23

Speaker 5

Like my anxiety. I think that's that's where my anxiety stems from.

00:09:50:01 - 00:09:50:19

Speaker 1

From Covid.

00:09:50:20 - 00:09:51:11

Speaker 5

As well.

00:09:51:13 - 00:09:53:08

Speaker 2

Oh, Covid really threw me over.

00:09:53:13 - 00:09:58:13

Speaker 4

Well, it was okay. I want to hear why? Why?

00:09:58:18 - 00:10:00:03

Speaker 1

Yeah.

00:10:00:05 - 00:10:23:18

Speaker 2

I mean, at like such a young age. Like, I remember one day my parents turned on their, their wedding video and my mom's like, oh, my God, that one died. Oh, my God, that one died. Oh my God, I can't believe that one died. And she's like, there's like 30 people that died since our wedding. And I was watching it and I was hearing her and I was like, what?

00:10:23:20 - 00:10:43:00

Speaker 2

And I just left. And I that's when like, anxiety hit for me. And then doing what my mom does also. And people are like, well, doesn't it bring you comfort? And I'm like, it is really hard to wrap your head around what she does. Yeah. Like and I'm

00:10:43:01 - 00:10:43:06

Speaker 4

like.

00:10:43:11 - 00:10:57:21

Speaker 2

Even for you, like, even for me, I'm like, yeah, there's still to this day because I would she was before we were filming, I would walk into the house, she would shut her tape recorder off and she's like, okay Victoria, I'm still in a session. Go upstairs and then, you know, like her client would be there and then I'd go upstairs.

00:10:57:21 - 00:11:07:19

Speaker 2

So, I mean, we’ve been doing it my whole life. So and when everyone would say, oh, what does your mom do for a living, I would just say, oh, she's a stay at home mom because I didn't want to say and, you know, in school.

00:11:07:21 - 00:11:12:19

Speaker 1

But so in case there's anybody, anybody out there listening who doesn't know what.

00:11:12:19 - 00:11:13:19

Speaker 4

We're talking.

00:11:13:21 - 00:11:16:00

Speaker 5

About, well, I'll tell you.

00:11:16:02 - 00:11:21:21

Speaker 1

There might be somebody from, like, Alabama streaming us. But, you know, even there, I think they probably.

00:11:21:22 - 00:11:23:12

Speaker 4

Like if you're from Long Island.

00:11:23:13 - 00:11:45:13

Speaker 2

Yeah. For anyone who doesn't know, my mom is the Long Island Medium. Theresa Caputo. So she can, cross paths with the departed. And there was a really funny story. So my neighbors across the street came up to my dad one day, and she goes, and they go, Larry, are you okay with what your wife does?

00:11:45:14 - 00:11:59:23

Speaker 2

And he goes, yeah. Like, what do you mean? She goes, well, there's so many women coming in and out of the house, like, are you okay with that? And he's like, what do you mean? And she, they thought that she was a prostitute.

00:12:00:01 - 00:12:01:06

Speaker 2

That probably should be cut out.

00:12:01:06 - 00:12:02:21

Speaker 4

But it just really funny.

00:12:02:21 - 00:12:10:02

Speaker 2

Because we were like, no, no, no. Like she like she works from home, but like that's not her work. But that's.

00:12:10:02 - 00:12:14:15

Speaker 4

How did they. How did they take that. She she can like I don’t know

00:12:14:17 - 00:12:26:19

Speaker 2

I was so I think it was so young what had happened. So I don't know like what my dad like ended up telling them. But it was just funny. And I was like, okay, well, I guess I'd rather have my mom talk dead people than be a prostitute. That's really, you know. Also me walking in.

00:12:26:19 - 00:12:27:17

Speaker 1

That’s a little harder to explain.

00:12:27:17 - 00:12:28:08

Speaker 4

Stopping.

00:12:28:08 - 00:13:01:14

Speaker 2

The tape. Yeah. Go upstairs. You know, I'm not done yet. I'm like, okay. But. So really, my life just revolved around it, and I guess I didn't realize how much it actually affected me, until I got older. And then until I realized, you know, about death. And you know this when we were watching the, the wedding video, and then, when I was in high school, we were in I was in a class, and we were watching a video about this young boy who got scleroderma.

00:13:01:16 - 00:13:25:13

Speaker 2

And that set off a whole new OCD and anxiety. So then it became about health. So it kind of correlated with the two. But I was, like debilitating anxiety. Like I would cry every morning. I couldn't get out of bed. I would walk the halls. I would feel like what I would hear like, whomp, whomp, whomp, like I would walk the halls and I would just like, not feel in my body.

00:13:25:15 - 00:13:49:06

Speaker 2

And I would have these, like, dizziness and lightheaded, like, like panicky feelings all the time. I would, like, jump out of my seat in class. I would run out. I in high school and senior year, my the principal was nice enough to let me cut my schedule so I could leave half day because I literally could not function and I wasn't eating.

00:13:49:08 - 00:13:57:06

Speaker 2

I lost like 35 pounds in like two months and I was tiny at the time. I know it doesn't look it now, but.

00:13:57:08 - 00:14:09:04

Speaker 1

That's, I mean, I, I'm as a therapist, I'm familiar with this, this portion of the population that stops eating when they get anxious. I'm on the other side of that. So I've never experienced that for myself.

00:14:09:09 - 00:14:09:18

Speaker 2

Yeah.

00:14:09:19 - 00:14:13:09

Speaker 4

I am terrified when you're losing weight and you have no control over it.

00:14:13:12 - 00:14:22:09

Speaker 2

Well, yeah. And I almost like I like at one point, like, I almost like, was gonna have to go to the hospital and get a feeding tube because I literally was not eating. I was skin and bones because.

00:14:22:10 - 00:14:23:17

Speaker 1

You weren't trying to lose weight.

00:14:23:17 - 00:14:38:16

Speaker 2

I was not trying to lose weight, and I was a gymnast. So I was going to gymnastics five days a week. So I was also exercising like a fiend. And I was just all muscle, no fat, no nothing. I was like a toothpick. I went, I think I went from like 130 to like 107.

00:14:38:19 - 00:14:39:05

Speaker 4

Yeah.

00:14:39:06 - 00:14:45:11

Speaker 1

Were people around you noticing and concerned or they were just like assuming that it was because of your exercise routine.

00:14:45:12 - 00:15:05:03

Speaker 2

I don't know if anybody was concerned. I mean, I was very open about like, yeah, I have anxiety and this is what it's doing to me. I never like really hid it from anybody. And I also my mom was very open to because like, I could not go anywhere without my mom. So my mom was like my safe space and she still is till this day.

00:15:05:04 - 00:15:18:03

Speaker 2

I mean, I've I've definitely gotten over it because she travels weeks at a time. I still cry when she leaves, but, yeah. So like when I was having, like, I could not go anywhere without my mom.

00:15:18:05 - 00:15:20:09

Speaker 1

She was really supportive.

00:15:20:11 - 00:15:35:04

Speaker 2

She was. And it was sad because, like, she'd be like, Victoria, like, I have to go to work like, I have a and I would just be sobbing and crying and she's like, you gotta go. Like, she would. And she would say, and you know, the one thing about her is that she wouldn't let me lay in bed.

00:15:35:05 - 00:15:50:08

Speaker 2

She wouldn't let me sit and watch TV. She's like, if you're not going to school because you have anxiety, you're going to get up and going to come with you. You're going to do everything with me today. She goes, even if you don't feel good. And honestly, I didn't know notice till now, but that was my exposure therapy.

00:15:50:09 - 00:15:57:15

Speaker 2

Yeah. And she really did help me. But like, it was just so crippling and so uncomfortable. Yeah.

00:15:57:17 - 00:16:01:16

Speaker 4

Because otherwise it could have gone to where you couldn't get out of the house or something like that.

00:16:01:19 - 00:16:25:06

Speaker 2

Yeah, because I didn't want to leave the house, I, I didn't, I mean, but I pushed myself to leave every single day because I, well, I had no choice. And I, I'm grateful that I was able to leave the house because now I know when I do have anxiety or if I don't feel okay, or if I do feel off, I'm like, I just tell myself, well, this anxiety, I feel uncomfortable, but I know what this is.

00:16:25:06 - 00:16:45:11

Speaker 2

I deal with it every day and I'm going to move on with my day and it's going to be with me. It could stay with me, but I'm not going to let it ruin my day. It can make my day a little shittier. Sorry if I'm cursing, but, you know, it's this is just how I live. And for me, I have to stay busy.

00:16:45:13 - 00:17:01:14

Speaker 2

I have to stay busy. So even if I get up and I don't feel good, and I'm going to work and I'm driving and I'm like, I have anxiety, I'm like, well, I'm going to go. I'm going to do my clients and and that's it. And as the day goes on, my brain completely forgets about what's what just happened two hours ago.

00:17:01:15 - 00:17:02:10

Speaker 2

Right? So.

00:17:02:14 - 00:17:14:23

Speaker 1

I mean, you describe what we talk about in session often of like noticing the anxiety, creating some distance from it, like not letting it be your entire identity and like.

00:17:15:01 - 00:17:17:11

Speaker 4

Cut it off. It can it's there. But you don't have to.

00:17:17:12 - 00:17:29:05

Speaker 1

We don't have to get rid of it. Like anxiety serves a function, does it? It keeps us safe. Keeps you from walking out into traffic. Right? Like keeps you from sending sick kids to school.

00:17:29:08 - 00:17:30:05

Speaker 4

Right?

00:17:30:06 - 00:17:32:03

Speaker 1

So like, anxiety’s not a

00:17:32:08 - 00:17:33:10

Speaker 4

It has a it has

00:17:33:10 - 00:17:35:19

Speaker 1

It gets a bad rep.

00:17:35:21 - 00:17:37:06

Speaker 4

I don't know it kind of sucks.

00:17:37:07 - 00:17:38:08

Speaker 2

Yeah. Well you know.

00:17:38:12 - 00:17:39:14

Speaker 1

an extreme.

00:17:39:16 - 00:17:57:20

Speaker 2

The people that don't experience it like this is what I'm very passionate about because people that don't get it. There are some people that are like oh I never had it so like I don't know what it's like. And then there's other people. It's like, calm down, just relax. And I'm like, oh, and I'm like, don't tell me to relax because you do not get it.

00:17:57:21 - 00:18:32:01

Speaker 2

Like you don't get it. And what also like frustrates me is that medication is so helpful and people are so against it, which really annoys me because I've tried so many different medications and throughout my life there are points where I need certain medications and don't need medications, and every medication obviously serves a purpose. But I tell people that have anxiety, I go, if you had high blood pressure, would you take medicine for your heart?

00:18:32:04 - 00:18:50:04

Speaker 2

They say, yeah. I said, okay, well, if you have a blood clot in your leg, would you take medication? Okay. So why are you treating every other organ, limb, whatever. But you won't treat your brain. What's what's the difference? That's what I don't understand. When we have a headache.

00:18:50:05 - 00:18:51:03

Speaker 4

I think people.

00:18:51:04 - 00:18:52:07

Speaker 2

We take Tylenol

00:18:52:09 - 00:19:17:09

Speaker 4

I think. Why people, over emphasize or over like

Analyze?

I think they think that the medications do more. And when we're talking about like anxiety, depression, what I think that they sometimes think that they do more than they do in a negative way, meaning and.

00:19:17:13 - 00:19:20:11

Speaker 1

Like it's going to change my personality. I'm not going to be who I am.

00:19:20:13 - 00:19:32:06

Speaker 4

And it's not true. It's not true. It's like a tool, just like anything else, like it is one. It doesn't take over. And look, not every medication works for everybody.

00:19:32:07 - 00:19:32:22

Speaker 2

Absolutely.

00:19:33:01 - 00:19:48:01

Speaker 4

It takes time and working with a professional to help get a really helpful, proper diagnosis and treatment. But it is a tool, just like we would use mindfulness or just like we would use different forms of therapy. And that's what I want.

00:19:48:05 - 00:19:55:20

Speaker 1

But medication really helps. But it wasn't like a magic. It's not magic. It doesn't make the anxiety completely.

00:19:55:21 - 00:20:04:02

Speaker 2

No don't I have anxiety to this day and I am on plenty of medication. Plenty. But.

00:20:04:04 - 00:20:07:12

Speaker 4

Yes, we have options.

00:20:07:14 - 00:20:38:12

Speaker 2

I, I see a therapist. She’s just absolutely amazing. I, I love her. I've been working with her since 2018 and 18, 19, so, five, like six, seven years. She has changed my life. I, I, she is a cognitive therapy. Cognitive therapy, cognitive behavioral therapist. There we go. CBD, CBT.

00:20:38:14 - 00:20:41:02

Speaker 1

CP, CBT.

00:20:41:04 - 00:20:41:19

Speaker 2

CBT.

00:20:41:20 - 00:20:43:05

Speaker 4

CBD is a whole

00:20:43:05 - 00:20:45:01

Speaker 1

different therapeutic option.

00:20:45:01 - 00:21:10:09

Speaker 2

Yep. I don't dabble in that. I will take a nice little Xanax, but no CBD on my on prescribed. Prescribed. Yes. Yes. No, no. Yeah. But she she really, really has helped me, learn. You know, what I like about cognitive therapy is that they teach you how the brain works. So you're not sitting there because I used to go to therapy, and I'd be like, well, I had a really bad day, and da da da.

00:21:10:10 - 00:21:35:22

Speaker 2

And then my anxiety would I'd be like, oh, I don't feel good. I, you know, and she's like, okay. And that didn't work for me. So some people that kind of therapy doesn't work. What I liked about her is that I wasn't really, talking about like, my issues. I, we were talking about things that I needed to work on for myself, tools and tricks and ideas on how to fight my, you know, anxiety, OCD,

00:21:36:00 - 00:21:36:13

Speaker 2

exactly.

00:21:36:13 - 00:21:37:02

Speaker 1

Yeah.

00:21:37:04 - 00:21:57:20

Speaker 2

So, you know, the the scenario, like she would say, okay, you know, like you're in a whirlpool and you got, you know, your floaties and then you take one floaty out and that's what you're thinking about. And then you have all these other things that you're thinking about to. And then you take, you know, so there are so many things that she would give me, using my five senses to ground myself, smell, taste, see, touch, all that stuff.

00:21:57:22 - 00:22:21:10

Speaker 2

I mean, I just, I think it's more important to, get educated on anxiety because then it makes you feel better. It's not like, okay, well, here's medication and this is. And just go on with your day.

You’re not crazy.

Right. I really, truly think that, like, you should be educated like any doctor that is giving you medication.

00:22:21:11 - 00:22:40:05

Speaker 2

Like, this is my other thing I. Yes, medication is great, but, like, I want somebody to sit down with me and say, hey, listen, this is where you're going to be taking this is what it's going to do for you. If there's any concerns, whatever. I want to be, I want to I want to be educated. And that's what my therapist did.

00:22:40:05 - 00:22:57:09

Speaker 2

She educated me on my brain and why this was happening, and that I'm not crazy, that it's completely normal and that I'm going to get through it no matter what. So, I love her and she's great, and I still talk to her this day.

00:22:57:11 - 00:23:01:19

Speaker 1

So you had anxiety before you became a parent?

00:23:01:21 - 00:23:02:12

Speaker 2

Oh, yeah.

00:23:02:12 - 00:23:08:16

Speaker 1

You're talking about in high school. So this was this has just been part of your life. Like it has come along for the ride.

00:23:08:17 - 00:23:21:11

Speaker 2

Yeah. I definitely had, like, separation anxiety from my mom at one point. Like, I couldn't do, like, sleepovers at anybody's house, things like that. Now, I know we get into the spiritual aspect.

00:23:21:13 - 00:23:27:07

Speaker 1

Just stuck here for a second because you're from an Italian family, and they let you do sleepovers. Yeah.

00:23:27:08 - 00:23:38:02

Speaker 2

Well, I did gymnastics and a lot of a lot of my friends in gymnastics were Jewish. So I guess maybe that even says everything. Not two Italians together.

00:23:38:04 - 00:23:45:23

Speaker 4

You had a team already kind of in place or a support system in place for when you did have kids, and.

00:23:46:01 - 00:24:10:15

Speaker 2

Oh 100% because, I made sure all the medication that I was, that I was on, I was allowed to stay on and I did, but we drew back. So I was on like the least amount of everything that I could take. That was, you know, that would not harm the baby, but, you know, maybe have withdrawals from or whatnot.

00:24:10:17 - 00:24:28:04

Speaker 2

Both of my children are very, very healthy, smart whatnot. So, I know people get nervous about being on medication while they're pregnant, I get it. That's why we go to high risk doctors. We make sure the heart is okay, because when you're on medication, people are like, oh, well, can affect okay, well, it can affect their heart.

00:24:28:05 - 00:24:42:05

Speaker 2

Okay. So what do we do? We go to the doctor. We go to a high risk doctor, and you just get more exams, than the normal, than the average. And it's great because now you get to see your baby every week instead of every four weeks. That's how I looked at it.

00:24:42:07 - 00:24:45:02

Speaker 1

So it had some built in anxiety reassurance too.

00:24:45:03 - 00:25:02:06

Speaker 2

Yeah, I mean, so I remember the doctor coming in and he goes, he, he put his hand on my leg and he says, I don't want you to feel bad about taking medication while you're pregnant. I said, I have zero. I said, I have to be my best self in order to be a mom, and that's why I didn't breastfeed.

00:25:02:09 - 00:25:20:19

Speaker 2

I know this is going into another subject, but if I am not well mentally, I cannot be there for my kids mentally. So to me it's more important to make sure that I'm okay. I know I have to make sure my kids are okay first, but I need to be my best self before I can make my kids their best self.

00:25:20:21 - 00:25:29:22

Speaker 2

So that's what I knew. Breastfeeding was going to be too much on me, and I wanted to get back on my medication because I knew that postpartum could get intense.

00:25:29:22 - 00:25:41:08

Speaker 1

So you knew about you knew about postpartum anxiety. You knew that because you had an anxiety disorder before, it was likely or more likely that you could have some postpartum anxiety.

00:25:41:10 - 00:25:46:22

Speaker 2

Correct and and I did for my first. For my second.

00:25:47:00 - 00:25:49:03

Speaker 2

Thank God.

00:25:49:05 - 00:25:49:21

Speaker 4

See it can get better.

00:25:49:22 - 00:26:12:04

Speaker 2

It was great. I, I, I really think it was I don't want I don't want to blame myself, but I really think, I was saying this the other day, it's like when you have one kid, you're not. You don't have enough. I don't want to say this, but, like, you don't have enough ambition to do anything during the day, you know, like, okay, you're on maternity leave.

00:26:12:09 - 00:26:16:14

Speaker 2

You have nothing to do besides, you know, care for baby.

Well your whole life has changed.

00:26:16:14 - 00:26:17:06

Speaker 4

So you're like.

00:26:17:07 - 00:26:32:19

Speaker 2

So you're like, okay, I'm home. I'm going to sit down on the couch. I'm going to watch TV, my baby's gonna nap. I'm gonna, you know, and then you're home alone. Yeah. And then, you know, I lived with my mom at the time because me and my husband were building our house. But even, like, when my mom was home, like, I still didn't feel like anybody, you know, like.

00:26:32:20 - 00:26:50:10

Speaker 2

And I just sat there with her in my lap on the same couch every single day, and I had the same routine. And I think that's what really kind of spiraled. I didn't leave the house. I didn't get out of. I didn't go for walks, I didn't, I didn't do anything. And with my second, it was so different because now I had my first daughter.

00:26:50:12 - 00:27:09:23

Speaker 2

So now I'm like, okay, I have to get. So I remember like when my second was a new born, I was getting up like six in the morning and I was and I had a routine and I'm like, why does this feel easier this time around? And I almost created a routine for myself. So it was like, okay, I'm going to get up, I'm going to shower, I'm going to take the baby.

00:27:10:01 - 00:27:25:09

Speaker 2

Michelina is going to wake up, She's going to come. And I had everything situated and I just feel like I know it sounds crazy. The more you have going on, the less you have to think about all your other OCD anxiety issues.

Well, because anxiety and

00:27:25:09 - 00:27:46:18

Speaker 4

OCD creates creates doubt, right. And so like when that kind of can get into a spiral, it can be really overwhelming and hard to what I call like jump off the water slide, you know. Yeah. And I'm just having something in your presence that took your attention means you you get to get out of your head a little bit.

00:27:46:19 - 00:27:58:04

Speaker 1

Yeah.

Right. And you said when we first started that like staying busy is how you cope with your anxiety, right? Like. And nothing keeps you busier than a toddler.

00:27:58:06 - 00:27:59:03

Speaker 2

Yeah I know.

00:27:59:04 - 00:27:59:12

Speaker 4

Yeah.

00:27:59:13 - 00:28:10:00

Speaker 2

But honestly, it's good because I'm focusing on what I have to do for Michelina. What do I have to do for Meadow? Where do I have to go this? And I have no time to think about my health anxiety.

00:28:10:01 - 00:28:11:09

Speaker 4

And you have a career.

00:28:11:11 - 00:28:30:16

Speaker 2

Yeah. And yeah. So it's like I have no time to, like have anxiety about things that I shouldn't be having anxiety about, things that are out of my control, that I cannot control because I feel like that's where a lot of anxieties lie. About 85% of the things, or 95% of the things that we think about, will never come true, even though we convince ourselves that they will.

00:28:30:17 - 00:28:35:09

Speaker 4

We convince like, if I think about it hard enough, then maybe I'll prevent that from happening.

00:28:35:12 - 00:28:36:17

Speaker 2

That's me, that's me, that's me.

00:28:36:20 - 00:28:42:23

Speaker 4

But then you spend your whole time. Already feeling the feelings of it happening. And it's like, I mean, I we.

00:28:42:23 - 00:28:43:07

Speaker 2

All do.

00:28:43:08 - 00:28:46:07

Speaker 4

Listen it. Yeah.

00:28:46:08 - 00:28:46:21

Speaker 1

Yeah.

00:28:47:00 - 00:28:48:07

Speaker 2

So.

00:28:48:08 - 00:28:51:15

Speaker 1

So you stayed on medication for both pregnancies?

00:28:51:16 - 00:28:53:02

Speaker 2

For both? Yeah.

00:28:53:04 - 00:29:10:15

Speaker 1

And you're right. So many people are afraid. Like I can't take medication. It's going to pass on to the baby. I'm going to hurt the baby. There's this side effect I read this study, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And also like we tell people, do you think not taking medicine means that your baby's great? Like it doesn't?

00:29:10:15 - 00:29:16:22

Speaker 1

Because untreated anxiety and depression also impacts

of course.

the baby.

Yeah.

00:29:17:04 - 00:29:34:08

Speaker 2

Having stress is going to put stress on the baby. Yeah. Listen, there's no right or wrong way of, you know, feeling what you feel or doing what you're doing. It's just depends on what you decide as a mom and what you think is best for yourself. You can always get off medication and get back on it and vice versa.

00:29:34:09 - 00:29:36:15

Speaker 2

I mean, you know, but.

00:29:36:17 - 00:29:45:16

Speaker 4

It's having a team who is able to that you trust that can look out for you and who you know that you know that you have other sets of eyes on you.

00:29:45:20 - 00:29:46:12

Speaker 1

Yeah, yeah.

00:29:46:13 - 00:29:56:20

Speaker 4

What about your family? Like, your husband obviously knew like, I'm guessing that this was something to look out for. Did you have conversations about that with him? Was he like.

00:29:56:21 - 00:30:20:06

Speaker 2

With my postpartum anxiety? Yeah. You know what? I've had anxiety for so long that when I was having my postpartum anxiety, it was more so, like an o CD kind of thing where I was just, like, thinking about, like, Oh, my God. Some of the songs were like, oh my God, I had a baby. Why did I.

00:30:20:10 - 00:30:38:18

Speaker 2

Why did I have her? I can't take care of her. Like I can't be a mom. Like I'm supposed to do this for the rest of my life? How? Like why this was a bad idea. Like. Or, or like I almost felt like robotic a lot of the time. And very, very outer body, which I get, I get out of body every single day of my life.

00:30:38:20 - 00:31:02:10

Speaker 2

It is what it is. I just deal with it. Some times it's worse. Sometimes it's not. But, so these are my thoughts. And I would talk to my therapist about it and, you know, she would help me. I don't really go to my husband a lot of times for like when I'm having thoughts and stuff like that because he's just gonna be like, you know, okay. If I wake up in the middle of the night and I'm like, hey, I'm having a panic attack, he'll be like, okay, I'll stay up with you.

00:31:02:12 - 00:31:24:17

Speaker 2

But I feel like I have handled my anxiety so much throughout the years that, like, I almost know what to do. Yeah, I'm not saying that. Like, I can completely fix it, but I have like enough tools to know, like, okay, this is this is whatever.

00:31:24:18 - 00:31:29:11

Speaker 1

And you knew that it can get better. You knew that it wasn't going to last forever.

00:31:29:13 - 00:31:30:04

Speaker 2

Right, right.

00:31:30:05 - 00:31:35:05

Speaker 1

So many new moms who have never been anxious before like, what the hell is happening?

00:31:35:06 - 00:31:56:00

Speaker 2

And I tell and I even say this like, I always think like I talk about having a third and I'm like, but like, I'm scared to be like, and I know I did it. I did it twice. I'm scared to be pregnant. I'm scared to give birth. And I'm. And I'm scared for postpartum. Why? I, I don't know, every pregnancy is different and it's, you know, it's in it's still new in a sense.

00:31:56:02 - 00:32:01:02

Speaker 2

But yeah, I don't know. It's just.

00:32:01:08 - 00:32:02:04

Speaker 4

It is. Yeah.

00:32:02:05 - 00:32:06:02

Speaker 1

Were you scared before getting pregnant with the first and second?

00:32:06:06 - 00:32:33:01

Speaker 2

It's funny because I feel like the more the more you're pregnant for some reason, for me, it's even more scary because, like, you know, for me, like, with my first, I didn't know as much. So when I had my first, I, you know, like you have, you know, you didn't really think about miscarriage. Like, you don't think about these things, you don't think about miscarrying, you don't think about, you know, issues that your, your child could have or, you know, neurological or chromosomal or, you know, the birth.

00:32:33:02 - 00:32:36:09

Speaker 2

Like, I didn't really think of anything, you know, I didn't I didn't.

00:32:36:09 - 00:32:38:23

Speaker 1

Think, you don't know what you don't know exactly.

00:32:39:00 - 00:32:48:15

Speaker 2

And then I had the first and then the second. And I'm like, now I have all my wheels turning and I'm like, well, this can happen, and this can happen and this and I and this. And I'm like, oh God. I go, the more I think you have a child.

00:32:48:17 - 00:32:51:11

Speaker 1

But you didn’t have postpartum anxiety with the second.

00:32:51:12 - 00:32:53:10

Speaker 2

I didn't, I didn't.

00:32:53:11 - 00:32:59:11

Speaker 1

So that's the thing that like we tell people all the time, like you actually can prevent it. Yes.

00:32:59:13 - 00:33:03:04

Speaker 2

I listen, I don't know what I did differently. Well, I will say, I.

00:33:03:04 - 00:33:06:20

Speaker 4

Mean, I could you've just named several things. Yeah.

00:33:06:22 - 00:33:28:13

Speaker 2

It was really hard on my, my older daughter, she was the one that gave me, oh, not anxiety, but she broke my heart because she was the only child on both sides. And it was always about her. And she's three. I had my second one she was when she was three. And it it was almost like, well, now no one's going to pay attention to me.

00:33:28:17 - 00:33:44:03

Speaker 2

So when she came to the hospital, she wanted to leave immediately. She did not want to see me. She did not want to see the baby. She went home. She went to my mom's. She would not come home from my mom's. And I remember FaceTiming her and I was crying and I said, Michelina, I said, I really miss you.

00:33:44:05 - 00:34:03:05

Speaker 2

I was like, can you come home? And she was like, no, she did not want to be around me. And then she finally came home and I was like, so happy to see her. And then another one of my anxieties with my when I had my second was, what if something happens to me when I'm home alone with the two of them?

00:34:03:05 - 00:34:07:08

Speaker 2

What? Like what happens? This is like my fear. So I mean, obviously eventually I got over it.

00:34:07:08 - 00:34:08:13

Speaker 1

Pretty common fear.

00:34:08:14 - 00:34:24:06

Speaker 2

Yeah. And obviously eventually I got over it and my therapist said, well, what I want you to do is I want you to be alone for short periods at a time, let them go out, stay home for a half hour by yourself, and then an hour and then whatever. So there was one day where my mother in law said, can I go?

00:34:24:06 - 00:34:44:06

Speaker 2

I said, yes, you can go. And Meadow was sleeping. That's my second daughter. She was sleeping. And I said, Michelina, I said, do you want to play? And she looked at me. She goes, you could play with me. And that like broke my heart because she like, thought, like all of my attention was leaving her and only going to Meadow.

00:34:44:06 - 00:35:02:08

Speaker 2

And I'm like, it's it's not. And so now she looked at me the other day, she goes, mom, if you have one more baby and it's a girl, we're naming it Samantha. I'm like, I'm like, you're allowed because she won't let me have any more baby. She told me, no, I said, I said, Michelina, I said, you're going to let mommy have another baby.

00:35:02:08 - 00:35:17:11

Speaker 2

And she goes, actually, I changed my mind. And I said, I said, okay. She goes, fine. She goes. But then like, what are you going to do with three babies? How are you going to take care of three babies by yourself without dad? And I said, well, I said, you're going to be in school most of the time.

00:35:17:11 - 00:35:21:11

Speaker 2

She goes, fine, I guess you could have one more.

00:35:21:13 - 00:35:23:20

Speaker 4

So where does Samantha come from?

00:35:23:21 - 00:35:25:08

Speaker 1

Kids say the darndest things.

00:35:25:09 - 00:35:26:00

Speaker 4

Frozen?

00:35:26:06 - 00:35:29:12

Speaker 2

Yes, yes, I really think because. So, Meadow is

00:35:29:12 - 00:35:31:01

Speaker 1

There’s a Samantha in Frozen?

00:35:31:06 - 00:35:32:08

Speaker 2

In Frozen Two.

00:35:32:10 - 00:35:34:19

Speaker 4

Frozen Two. Samantha?

00:35:34:20 - 00:35:52:20

Speaker 2

Yeah. He's like Samantha? I don't even know Samantha. And he's, like, cracking up. So I think that's where she got it from. Meadow’s obsessed with Frozen. So we go back from Frozen to Frozen Two all the time. So maybe that's where she got it from. I mean, I like the name Samantha. I would never use it. I want to use another M.

00:35:52:22 - 00:35:55:17

Speaker 2

But I already have my name's picked out.

00:35:55:19 - 00:35:56:14

Speaker 4

To be continued.

00:35:56:14 - 00:35:59:00

Speaker 2

To be continued. Yeah. Hopefully one day. So. But yeah.

00:35:59:06 - 00:36:18:01

Speaker 4

So I want to talk about this because A I think it's interesting with the connection between your mom's work and anxiety is like, I have so many clients that come in and say like they think their anxiety is intuition.

00:36:18:03 - 00:36:18:20

Speaker 4

Have you ever.

00:36:18:21 - 00:36:29:15

Speaker 1

Yes. And that's such a big mom thing. Like every I feel like every mom blog or is like, trust your mom instincts.

00:36:29:17 - 00:36:51:15

Speaker 2

That you're my anxiety comes in because I'm like, is it my gut? Is it not my gut? Is it my OCD tricking me? I don't know what to believe. So that's my thing. I really think anxiety goes hand in hand with being like like an empath. Like, people's emotions, people's feelings, things that they carry. Like for you guys, you guys got to do some grounding work.

00:36:51:16 - 00:36:53:17

Speaker 4

We do a lot of compartmentalization.

00:36:53:22 - 00:36:55:14

Speaker 1

Are you saying we need grounding work?

00:36:55:17 - 00:37:08:11

Speaker 2

Just like you got to. You got to clear yourself before you go in. You got to protect yourself. And you got to clear yourself before you go out, because all of your clients shit is on you now, and you're going to take on their energies, and it's probably going to suck. Yeah.

00:37:08:13 - 00:37:13:11

Speaker 1

So I feel like making a comment about our present energy. No no no.

00:37:13:11 - 00:37:14:18

Speaker 2

No no no no no no no.

00:37:14:19 - 00:37:17:02

Speaker 1

I was like, I'm feeling actually pretty grounded at the moment.

00:37:17:03 - 00:37:20:06

Speaker 2

No no no no no, I would, I would no. So.

00:37:20:10 - 00:37:20:22

Speaker 1

Yes you would.

00:37:20:23 - 00:37:28:02

Speaker 4

Yeah. We have like container exercise that we use with our clients and we use with ourselves. Yes. Yeah. Definitely.

00:37:28:04 - 00:37:36:04

Speaker 2

Yeah, definitely. When you're like, I work obviously with people, I can pick up their energies in a snap and finger.

00:37:36:06 - 00:37:43:03

Speaker 1

By the way, when you went to the bathroom earlier, she told me that we, plural have a lot of energy. It's not just one.

00:37:43:05 - 00:37:43:22

Speaker 4

Oh, yeah?

00:37:43:23 - 00:37:45:15

Speaker 1

Yeah. I was like, yeah, that sounds about right.

00:37:45:16 - 00:37:52:02

Speaker 2

Yeah. Oh my God. Does this come into a different okay.

00:37:52:06 - 00:37:52:15

Speaker 4

No.

00:37:52:18 - 00:37:53:09

Speaker 1

No.

00:37:53:11 - 00:37:55:13

Speaker 2

I don't really I don't really know anything.

00:37:55:14 - 00:37:56:08

Speaker 4

Yeah.

00:37:56:10 - 00:37:57:14

Speaker 1

You're so full of shit.

00:37:57:14 - 00:38:04:09

Speaker 2

Don't know, I don't know, I don't know. Sometimes I get things, sometimes I don't. Yeah. I don't really know, but,

00:38:04:10 - 00:38:29:18

Speaker 4

Well, I don't think of myself as an intuitive, however I do. I am an empath, and I do read people's energy to the point where people I've had people say like, how did you know that? And I was like, why? Just this was your presence when you walked into the room? And I could I could see it. Yeah.

00:38:29:20 - 00:38:46:12

Speaker 2

And honestly, so a lot of times, I don't know when my anxiety is me or when my anxiety is other people. A lot of times I really do find that is that it is other people. The other day I went to Hicks nursery.

00:38:46:14 - 00:38:49:00

Speaker 4

Love that place. Okay.

00:38:49:02 - 00:38:49:19

Speaker 2

I didn't.

00:38:49:20 - 00:38:50:07

Speaker 4

Okay.

00:38:50:08 - 00:39:23:00

Speaker 2

So, I was driving there and I felt off and I'm like, okay, whatever. I walk in, I don't know what happened, but like, I felt like, very off balance. I like, couldn't focus right. Very at her body, very anxious. And there's somebody that I always text and it's not my mom, surprisingly, but there's somebody that I always text and say, I need some protection.

00:39:23:00 - 00:39:55:00

Speaker 2

And now this is how you feel like spiritually. And I talk to this about my therapist. I always say, I think there's a spiritual side, and I think there's a scientific side, and I think they both clash and come together in my opinion. But, you know, people can believe whatever they want. I know spiritually it's hard. But I like if I'm but like finished with Hicks, like, obviously my brain is all over the place, but as soon as I walked out, I felt like a different person.

00:39:55:00 - 00:40:04:20

Speaker 2

I, I had this pounding headache. Pounding would not go away. I walked, I walked out, I was I felt like a different person.

00:40:04:22 - 00:40:05:09

Speaker 1

Yeah.

00:40:05:12 - 00:40:07:10

Speaker 2

It is, it was bizarre.

00:40:07:15 - 00:40:09:01

Speaker 4

Yeah, bizarre.

00:40:09:03 - 00:40:21:10

Speaker 1

So in that moment where you you were aware of it enough to text your friend? Yeah. Were you able to be like, I need to remove myself or.

00:40:21:12 - 00:40:34:02

Speaker 2

No, I just continued. Yeah, I just said I, I knew what it was. It was very, very uncomfortable. But what was. Well, I'm not going to just be like, I'm going to get up and go. Yeah. I mean, so.

00:40:34:03 - 00:40:39:12

Speaker 4

It's like with the anxiety, you're like, okay, it's here. And I'm not going to let it, like take over my life. Like.

00:40:39:14 - 00:40:42:20

Speaker 2

Like my therapist said, anxiety never killed anybody. You know what I'm saying?

00:40:42:21 - 00:40:45:08

Speaker 4

Like I'm gonna use that.

00:40:45:09 - 00:40:55:04

Speaker 2

It's true. You know, it's like we worry about what's going to happen. But at the end of the day, it's just anxiety, like you're, you know. So.

00:40:55:06 - 00:41:16:15

Speaker 4

And I think that you're right when you said earlier like education is the key because there can be so many somatic symptoms that if someone is a new mom and has started experiencing postpartum anxiety, fluctuation in hormones like they drop off the cliff right then it's like to know that, like, hey, that lump in your throat. Actually, that's a somatic symptom of anxiety, right?

00:41:16:17 - 00:41:25:07

Speaker 4

Your heart beating really fast. You're not having a heart attack. That is a symptom of anxiety like all of until, you know, it's terrifying. Yeah.

00:41:25:11 - 00:41:47:19

Speaker 1

Or like the tightness in your chest is a warning sign and we have to listen to our body, right? Like, sometimes when it's not screaming, we don't hear it. But when you can be in touch with your body and be like, oh, like, actually think my heart is racing right now. Yeah. Am I anxious? Like, what's what's happening?

00:41:47:19 - 00:42:06:01

Speaker 1

And maybe I need to, like, take a step outside. Or maybe I need to take some do the grounding exercises. Right. When we can start to listen to our body, we can hear, like I always say, like it talks to you. And if you don't listen, it yells at you.

00:42:06:03 - 00:42:07:14

Speaker 2

It's true.

00:42:07:16 - 00:42:08:18

Speaker 4

It’s true.

00:42:08:20 - 00:42:14:02

Speaker 1

Yeah, but only if you're not listening. You often talk about intuition.

00:42:14:03 - 00:42:16:12

Speaker 4

Always.

00:42:16:14 - 00:42:19:13

Speaker 1

Try not to be so black and white.

00:42:19:15 - 00:42:46:15

Speaker 1

You often talk about intuition and anxiety and in new moms, I feel like it's it's it's really. It comes up so often, like there's something wrong with the baby or are they sick? Do they have. You know, I had a lot of clients who are like, I think that there's and this, this I, I as even as a therapist I'm really hard is when their intuition is right and there actually is something wrong.

00:42:46:15 - 00:42:48:18

Speaker 1

And then how do you manage anxiety after that.

00:42:48:20 - 00:42:49:00

Speaker 1

00:42:49:06 - 00:42:59:10

Speaker 4

Or when it's a fluke. And but then like reinforces that belief like, you know, like because people get sick and things happen, you know. And so.

00:42:59:11 - 00:43:24:21

Speaker 2

I mean, for me, I never know like, I, I know they always say like mother's intuition or like moms know best. And that's true for your own kids for sure. But if I ever feel like something's wrong with my kids and I feel like they need, you know, a doctor, I rather have peace in my brain. So even if it's nothing.

00:43:24:22 - 00:43:46:08

Speaker 2

I'll be like, hey, can I come in? I, you know, just a little there, but. Yeah, absolutely. Come on in. And that just gives me a peace of mind knowing. Okay. She's fine. They're fine. Everything is okay. And sometimes if you have to do like, it's okay calling the doctor a hundred times, like, I know we sound crazy and we feel crazy, but there's a lot of people that are doing that.

00:43:46:10 - 00:43:56:16

Speaker 2

And if it's going to make you feel better as a parent, then do it. Because like you said, like what if like what if you didn't do it that one time and then something happens?

00:43:56:18 - 00:44:13:23

Speaker 1

Yeah. And certainly with like health stuff. Right. You never want a risk, but sometimes it's not significant. Right. Like, I woke up in the middle of the night and I had the thought, oh, is my baby still breathing? Let me get up and walk into their room and wake them up to make sure that they're still breathing. That's not so great, right?

00:44:14:00 - 00:44:15:07

Speaker 1

Like, yeah, it's a little.

00:44:15:11 - 00:44:17:03

Speaker 4

Totally. Yeah.

00:44:17:08 - 00:44:18:00

Speaker 2

But it's normal.

00:44:18:01 - 00:44:19:16

Speaker 1

Have been there. It's common.

00:44:19:16 - 00:44:20:07

Speaker 4

It's common.

00:44:20:13 - 00:44:30:13

Speaker 1

It’s common. I'm not sure I would use the word normal because normal is like six hours of uninterrupted sleep. Right. Like that would be beautiful.

00:44:30:15 - 00:44:31:16

Speaker 2

Yeah.

00:44:31:18 - 00:44:33:22

Speaker 1

But common. Yeah. Yeah.

00:44:34:00 - 00:45:00:14

Speaker 4

It is common. Yeah. Well, it's like for me, like I have a kid with some medical challenges and I know myself that I'm like, oh, is this like, I know myself like it didn't exist back then, but like, let's talk about the the sock that you the monitor sock. I know if I had had that back then, the false alarms would have made me so anxious.

00:45:00:15 - 00:45:03:05

Speaker 2

Yeah. So the Owlet Sock. Yeah, I had that.

00:45:03:10 - 00:45:04:21

Speaker 4

I wasn’t going to say the brand.

00:45:04:23 - 00:45:24:16

Speaker 2

I said it, so I had it for my first daughter and it actually gave. There are some people that it would be like to me if I saw it, and if I saw something wrong, I don't think I would freak out. I just feel like, okay, some things off, but like, it wouldn't, it would actually make me feel better knowing that something possibly could be off, could be a fluke, whatever.

00:45:24:18 - 00:45:28:05

Speaker 2

I never had any issues with it. It was great. I never used it for my second daughter.

00:45:28:07 - 00:45:28:19

Speaker 1

You didn't need it.

00:45:28:19 - 00:45:32:14

Speaker 4

You didn't need it anymore. Yeah, but that's that's like that.

00:45:32:17 - 00:45:45:21

Speaker 1

That's that's the thing. And, you know, for therapist, we have this love hate relationship because it does reassure anxious people. Yeah. But also you never learn how to trust your own knowing.

00:45:45:23 - 00:46:15:05

Speaker 2

It becomes a point if you become to obsessing over it. So my because I remember my therapist saying, well, you know, if you're checking it x amount of times, then it's becoming obsessive. So we can't be doing that anymore. If you're going to use it, you can only look at it if it goes off, if you're looking at it more time, like if you're looking at it just because you were nervous and you wanted to see how long she was sleeping or her heartbeat or whatever, then there is something too much.

00:46:15:07 - 00:46:17:07

Speaker 4

If you find yourself watching like, yeah.

00:46:17:08 - 00:46:17:23

Speaker 2

It's too much.

00:46:18:00 - 00:46:41:08

Speaker 4

And it's interfering with your life. And that's really one of the markers that we talk about with anyone that we're working to help treat is like, how much is it interfering with your life? Right. And if that is really taking over, then okay, what can we do to help support that. It's it's not I've never met anyone who has had anxiety and it completely went away.

00:46:41:10 - 00:46:54:14

Speaker 4

I'm still not convinced that there are people that don't have anxiety. I'm like, really? That's wonder what that feels like. Yeah. But, you know, amazing. Yeah, yeah, I don't know. It's like.

00:46:54:16 - 00:47:01:23

Speaker 2

I mean, these are like, these are the cards I was, you know, were dealt with and, you know, I say, if that's the worst I'm struggling with.

00:47:02:03 - 00:47:03:08

Speaker 4

Totally.

00:47:03:10 - 00:47:15:17

Speaker 2

And, you know, because you see other people, you know, and they have it way worse. And I'm like, if this is what I'm struggling with, you know, you should be grateful that it's only just I know it it's only just anxiety. I know I don't want to say it like that, but.

00:47:15:19 - 00:47:17:02

Speaker 4

Well, like you said, but.

00:47:17:02 - 00:47:39:13

Speaker 1

You it's not it's not just anxiety, right? Like you have an anxiety disorder and you've learned how to live with it. You've learned how to manage it. You have built a beautiful family, right? Like you're raising your children to be empathic and funny and just like their mom. Right? So it's it's a part of who you

00:47:39:17 - 00:47:44:11

Speaker 1

are, but it hasn't taken over your life. Correct. You haven't allowed that?

00:47:44:13 - 00:48:09:06

Speaker 2

I have not, because it took over my mom's life. And she I remember she would when she was younger, she got a job. Well, she was supposed to get a job, and she was afraid to go in elevators. And she took, you know, didn't take the job because she would have to go up 17 stories or whatever. And she's like, I never I didn't want this to be you.

00:48:09:08 - 00:48:26:23

Speaker 2

And that's what I really think is also important, is that I never want to put my anxiety onto my kids. So like I, because I remember my mom, we were we would be driving in the car and she'd be like, Larry, you have to pull over, you have to pull over. And she's opening up the car door on the LIE.

00:48:27:01 - 00:48:49:17

Speaker 2

And now I'm crying, screaming because I think something's wrong with her. And I never want to instill anxiety or fear on my children. And I do my absolute best every day to do so, because my older one definitely has some anxiety tendencies. As soon as she sees a cut, she's like, mom. Am I okay? Or like my older

00:48:49:18 - 00:49:10:23

Speaker 2

my younger daughter has fallen down the steps, fell off the bed, ate hands and drank hand sanitizer, has bitten into dumplings. So every time this happens, Michelina is like, mom, is she okay? Does she go to the hospital? And I'm like, Michelina. I'm like, does she look okay? And she goes, yes, I go, then she is fine. And so if you are calm and show your children that you're calm, then it's not.

00:49:11:00 - 00:49:14:14

Speaker 2

I know some of its genetic and that's you can't help that.

00:49:14:15 - 00:49:20:15

Speaker 4

But then you're also teaching them that, hey you, this is treatable. We can get help, like all of these other things as well.

00:49:20:17 - 00:49:24:07

Speaker 1

And you can teach them the grounding tools that you.

00:49:24:09 - 00:49:44:12

Speaker 2

And I do exposure therapy with my daughter all the time because, like, she'll be in the bath like my my cut on my knee, I can't it's and I just start splashing water on her leg or I dunk her knee in I go. Does it hurt? Does it burn? She goes no I go okay, see you're fine. So yet again it's all about.

00:49:44:14 - 00:49:46:08

Speaker 2

Yeah. Education.

00:49:46:10 - 00:50:07:04

Speaker 4

None of us get out of this life scot-free. You know now like we don't like if it's not anxiety, it's something else. And. But I think the difference is, is that you have learned so much about your own experience that you're now able to be like, hey, it's like that passing on that generational.

00:50:07:08 - 00:50:27:14

Speaker 1

Yeah. I mean, I think that as moms, that's what we want, right? Like, you always want your kids to have it a little bit better than you did. Yeah, yeah. So kind of brings us full circle to, you know, why we're here. And and your podcast was Is It Bedtime Yet? And our's is What No Mom Told You. Right.

00:50:27:14 - 00:50:50:20

Speaker 1

So if there's new moms out there who are listening or maybe thinking about getting pregnant or they've had an anxiety disorder before, what's something that you feel like you really learned? Maybe the hard way or maybe harder than you needed to that you would want? I know your mom told you a lot of stuff.

00:50:50:22 - 00:51:16:16

Speaker 2

To not be stubborn. Because when I was younger, it was very hard to get me to a therapist. It was very hard for me to take medication. So I would say, acceptance is your first step. That's really, really important. And just. I don't want to say not saying, like, embrace it, but, like, just own it.

00:51:16:17 - 00:51:38:09

Speaker 2

Like, you have it. It's there. It is what it is. It's not going to change you as a person. Everyone's going to love you the same no matter what. And I think education is extremely important. And just getting help, whether like it's a psychiatrist or a a therapist, medication, not medication, whether you want to do it, you know, naturally and do whatever it may be.

00:51:38:11 - 00:51:58:04

Speaker 2

I think you have to be an advocate for yourself and do what you feel is right, but always try every option. That's also my because, you know, you might find that, you know, you did the medication but you didn't like it. So you go the all natural route and then you find that the all natural is better and or vice versa.

00:51:58:06 - 00:52:17:10

Speaker 2

Like never just settle for like one doctor or, you know, just explore your options, become knowledgeable, and just and listen to your body and listen to yourself. I know sometimes that between the OCD and your real thoughts and your fake thoughts and your anxiety, whatever.

00:52:17:11 - 00:52:18:11

Speaker 1

And your intuition.

00:52:18:12 - 00:52:37:00

Speaker 2

Yeah. And your intuition, like, kind of find like a common ground between all of them. And just honestly know that no matter what, you'll always get through it. There is always somebody that is going to help you through it. It completely sucks during it, and you feel like you're never going to feel the same and you don't.

00:52:37:01 - 00:52:55:13

Speaker 2

Obviously, you know, the thing is, it's like we always say, well, we don't want to live like this. I can't, I don't want to live like this. And that's what I used to tell myself. I don't want to live like this. I don't want to live this. I don't. And it sucks every day going through that feeling. But there's going to be that one day where it just clicks and your life goes back to normal.

00:52:55:13 - 00:53:03:09

Speaker 2

So don't give up. Educate and and trust.

00:53:03:11 - 00:53:05:13

Speaker 1

I love that. Yeah.

00:53:05:15 - 00:53:06:12

Speaker 2

I'm just rambling.

00:53:06:13 - 00:53:10:13

Speaker 1

Finding, trusting yourself and finding people that you trust.

00:53:10:14 - 00:53:35:10

Speaker 4

Yeah, yeah. Thank you so much. I really want to thank you for being so public about your experience, because that I know that that is changing. But even just somebody hearing you and hearing what you're saying and saying, oh, you know what, hadn't thought about that being OCD trait or an intrusive thought, you know, it makes such a difference.

00:53:35:10 - 00:53:52:01

Speaker 2

I would have never known that I had OCD until I met my therapist, because I always thought it was anxiety. And then she was like, well, nope. OCD and anxiety go hand in hand. And then recently she said, maybe you have a little ADHD. And I said, I think so too.

00:53:52:03 - 00:53:53:08

Speaker 4

Yeah, that

00:53:53:10 - 00:54:02:04

Speaker 1

is happening to women all over the place right now. Like, oh right, girls can have ADHD that explains so much.

00:54:02:06 - 00:54:03:23

Speaker 4

So looks a little different.

00:54:04:01 - 00:54:29:00

Speaker 1

Just a little bit. But yeah. Yeah. But yeah, I'm, I'm super grateful for Nassau County for introducing us. We did the Maternal Mental Health, Advocacy Day two years in a row. And that's how we got to meet. And you just always share your story so beautifully. I think it really, it impacts people when they see people who are just like them.

00:54:29:01 - 00:54:37:21

Speaker 1

Moms working a job, trying to have a family, doing all the things. And you're just a normal.

00:54:37:23 - 00:54:40:13

Speaker 2

Here I am, I'm normal. I felt so many.

00:54:40:15 - 00:54:44:16

Speaker 4

You were on TV when you were a teenager, but other than that your normal.

00:54:44:18 - 00:54:54:15

Speaker 2

I follow so many like anxiety, health, OCD people on Instagram and I look at them and I'm like, oh, that makes me feel better. Like she had the same thoughts and it's like.

00:54:54:17 - 00:54:58:08

Speaker 1

Well, that's why it's so popular. It's people don't want to feel alone.

00:54:58:10 - 00:55:03:08

Speaker 2

Yeah. And even though you do feel alone, you're not alone.

00:55:03:13 - 00:55:07:21

Speaker 1

You're really not alone. There are so many resources out there.

00:55:08:00 - 00:55:11:10

Speaker 4

And we will list them. We'll put them in the show notes.

00:55:11:13 - 00:55:17:18

Speaker 1

Well, thank you so much for joining us. And thank you to Press Record Studios for giving us the space

00:55:17:20 - 00:55:18:15

Speaker 4

to be able to do this.

00:55:18:21 - 00:55:21:13

Speaker 1

It was really fun to be in person. Yeah. Sorry.

00:55:21:14 - 00:55:24:14

Speaker 2

I, I literally felt like I was rambling. A lot.

00:55:24:16 - 00:55:25:10

Speaker 1

No, you did a good job.

00:55:25:12 - 00:55:27:07

Speaker 2

You're like when you like blackout, you don't know what's going on.

00:55:27:08 - 00:55:28:16

Speaker 4

You just keep going.

Every episode.

00:55:28:17 - 00:55:30:05

Speaker 2

Yeah. Yeah, that's. That was me.

00:55:30:11 - 00:55:39:20

Speaker 1

Yeah. So thank you. If you enjoyed this episode, come back for the next one. There's more where that came from, so we'll see you soon.

00:55:39:22 - 00:55:46:03

Speaker 3

Thanks for spending this time with us. This is What No Mom Told You. And, yeah, there's more where that came from.