Welcome to our podcast, What No Mom Told You, where the rarely spoken truths finally get loud.

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I'm Megan Nelson.

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And I'm Pauline Walfisch and this is a therapist-led podcast where we talk about the things no one warned you about, the truths that are often kept quiet.

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We're naming the messy parts of life, motherhood, fertility, loss, grief, and joy, and everything in between, without judgment.

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because the rarely spoken truths need to be said out loud, and because no one should feel alone.

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Welcome to What No Mom Told You.

Pauline (00:44)

Hello and welcome back to What No Mom Told You. My name is Pauline Walfish.

Megan (00:51)

My name is Megan Nelson.

Pauline (00:53)

And we are here for our second episode. So if you were here for the first one, you heard all about my, what No Mom Told You. And I'm excited today to turn it over to Megan, who has an interesting story to share with us about, about hers. So let's get started, Megan. Tell our listeners, what is the thing that No Mom Told You?

Megan (01:16)

Let's go!

Well, it's interesting because it's kind of my thing, but it's actually more of my family's thing. So, you know how like families can have like family lore? I've been thinking about this lately. I had a conversation with my mom and it reminded me of a previous conversation with my mom.

Pauline (01:40)

yeah.

Megan (01:50)

And so in our family lore, it's all about like reproductive history and becoming parents because my parents were married young and yet had eight years of infertility. And this is back in the seventies.

Pauline (02:10)

So that was before IVF even existed or right around.

Megan (02:15)

And

it's like when there were some medications, I guess, and some treatments, the details were left out when I was young. ⁓ But they really struggled, and it was something that was really uncommon in their group, especially for such young people in their young 20s.

You know, after eight years of that, they ended up adopting my sister, my oldest sister, ⁓ and within that as well, they had ⁓ several pregnancies that ended in miscarriage and won a late-term miscarriage. Fast forward a couple of years and technology caught up.

and they happen to have connection with a doctor that was able to offer them something that worked.

And then they had my twin brother and I. And it sounds like, this is such a nice story. But within that...

Pauline (03:32)

I can see as you're telling that story, like it still has such an impact on you. I can see it on your face.

Megan (03:39)

It's such a part, it's like one of the earliest things I can remember my family talking about. Part of that is because my sister's adopted, right? And they always wanted her to know like how her story and how she came to be part of our family and what a responsibility and love that they felt and how lucky they felt for that. So that I think is where part of that comes in is that it was always...

this really big part of my family

Pauline (04:11)

⁓ I have ⁓ like, I can feel it now, because you know I have my own adoption story. that love that you're talking about, that your parents wanted your sister to know, I feel that so deeply. ⁓ So it's just listening to you talk, I can feel my body reacting.

Megan (04:37)

And that's a huge story on its own, right? And one that is not even really mine to tell, because I only know what I took from it, and I'm still learning. When my grandmother was alive, she knew parts of that story, because she was the first person to meet my sister that I didn't even know. ⁓ It's so interesting.

And within that, there's also so many challenges, right? And when my...

And they found out six weeks before we were born.

Pauline (05:20)

my goodness. You know, we forget now how far advanced medical technology is because people know that they're pregnant with twins like before they can even be found practically on a sonogram. And yeah, back then people just didn't know.

Megan (05:23)

you

she had like slipped or something and her belly got twice as big. And so then they were like, we should probably do an ultrasound. And they were like, wait a second. There's twins. Yeah, which you think it's like, so exciting. But my mom at this point already had two kids under five years old.

Pauline (05:56)

⁓ There's like four feet in here.

Megan (06:06)

So after eight years of infertility knowing that you're going to have four children under four was pretty terrifying, I think, for her. And she says now like...

Pauline (06:14)

Yes, I can imagine

and being afraid to say that out loud.

Megan (06:19)

Yeah, and that's a good point, because she's always like, it's what I wanted. And I'm like, well. And my grandmother would say she was scared. She was definitely scared, understandably.

Pauline (06:32)

You

can have two emotions at the same time. You can be really excited and scared to death at the same time.

Megan (06:40)

Yeah, and I think the fear grew because we were born 10 weeks early. And so my brother and I were in the NICU for a very long time. And in that process, there were really challenging things that, again, this is a long time ago, the success rates were not what they are today.

just crazy things. My mom had learning baby CPR the night that she actually had the night before she actually had to use it. So all of these things kind of happened to her. Fast forward 30 years and 30 something years. I have my own children in a very unusual way. my first child, unexpected and

the child was expected, the birth was not. And I'm talking to my mom and I'm saying, I say to her, I cannot.

the trauma that you went through to become a parent. And she looked at me and she said, you're the first person that ever described it as trauma.

And that makes me like so sad to this day that she was expected to go through nine years of, eight to nine years of infertility adoption, which comes with its own fear. Back in the day, you had a year to finalize the adoption. You didn't know what was gonna happen, you know? And, you know, a loss after 20 weeks.

Pauline (08:22)

Yeah.

Megan (08:27)

Two preterm pregnancies, one resulting in twins, the near death of a child. And nobody said like, this is traumatic. ⁓

Pauline (08:40)

No,

because it's what you wanted. It's what you signed up for.

Megan (08:47)

And there just wasn't space to talk about that. And yet it took my mom, 40 years later, my mom is still talking about it. Because it became part of our family's lore because it needed a space. And so I think while my own individual story is definitely the reason I got pulled into this world.

Now that looking back on it, this was part of my whole life. And I guess the thing that no mom told me would be that just because something is common doesn't mean it's normal.

Pauline (09:33)

Mmm, I love that.

Megan (09:36)

⁓ Pregnancy loss is common and it's not normal. Infertility is common and it's not normal. Birth trauma, NICU stays are common and not normal.

Pauline (09:48)

postpartum depression, intrusive thoughts, anxiety.

Megan (09:56)

And most of the time, there's an overlap, right? It's not just one thing. It's this accumulation of so many things. And when we try to normalize those things, it makes people feel really,

I think people didn't address it because they were like, ⁓ this happens. And yeah, she got so alone ⁓

Pauline (10:25)

And it's really invalidating, right? Her experience is so upsetting and for people to not even notice or not talk about it. We can be really invalidating without doing anything.

Megan (10:43)

Yeah, even by jumping to the happy, right? It's like, oh, well, at least everybody's okay now. As we know, that doesn't take away the experience of trauma.

Pauline (10:57)

Right, trauma is not dependent on the, the experience of trauma is not dependent on the outcome. If you have a car accident and you walk out of that car, yes, you're grateful that you walked out of the car and that experience of being in the accident was still traumatic. But yeah, you're right, so many people are quick to say, ⁓ but your baby's healthy, but you have four children.

Megan (11:24)

you can adopt or at least you have other children. ⁓

So yeah, I think that's my bit that your mom told you.

Pauline (11:38)

When did you realize that?

Megan (11:42)

hmmm. I mean it was after having children of my own. And it was, that was really like eye opening for me. First of all I realized like taking it back to my mom that she was just a human. You know? And that if-

Pauline (12:06)

You mean nobody told

you that your mom was actually a person?

Megan (12:10)

Yeah, but my mom was a person doing her best, you know? And I think that's probably what hit me pretty hard at some point, becoming a mom, was knowing like, if I can recognize everything that my mom went through and that that wasn't normal and that contributed to, for better for worse, had an impact on me and my siblings and the whole family unit, really, then that means that

Pauline (12:35)

Yeah.

Megan (12:37)

my experience also can have an impact on my children. And I think that while that was hard to like come to terms with, it also told me that, I'm a human too. Like I'm going to make mistakes. Even knowing things that I know as a therapist, I still make the same mistakes with my kid. And, but

Pauline (12:42)

you

Yep.

Megan (13:05)

It's also hopeful because, A, I feel like I turned out okay. well, thanks. Thanks. And you know, like, I know that there's so much healing. And I love that. I'm like, you know, to go off a little bit, but like, I'm a really firm, hopeful believer.

Pauline (13:12)

I can vouch for that. I think it turned out pretty great.

Megan (13:32)

in change and growth for people. so, like, and I, that's something I really do take with me with all my clients. And so I like to try to have that.

Pauline (13:47)

Yeah. One of my previous mentors said something like, future is unwritten. And that has stuck with me.

We have ideas about what we want it to look like and it's a story that's gonna keep writing itself. We have some influence.

Megan (14:11)

And it can change so much in a year. Like, in that story, it's like, think about...

So much can change in a year. So much my parents...

in challenging ways.

Pauline (14:45)

There's something called post-traumatic growth.

can have a traumatic experience and it can have a negative outcome. And when we're able to process it and do the work and heal and grow, sometimes really beautiful things.

So is that what made you interested in becoming a therapist?

Megan (15:14)

That was like an underlying ⁓

therapy for me, being a, not that, becoming a therapist is a second career for me. And so my first career-ish was an actor and I always tell people like it's a real...

and I'll...

Pauline (15:38)

Especially when

your boss asks you to be on video with her.

Megan (15:42)

to be

in the camera, That never feels supernatural, but you know, it's like. the example that I give is that one of the definitions of acting, like acting on stage, acting in a film, is living truthfully under imaginary circumstances. And for me, working with people, it's about finding the truth.

in their experience, in their circumstances. And so I use some of the same tools. I use some of the same imagery. I know what it's like to try to put myself in someone else's experience. I've done that since I was a kid. I was acting since I was a child. And so it feels like a very natural transition. And I always have been fascinated

by people who are able to help other people. And looking back, I was always interested in my friends who are going back to school for social work or becoming a therapist. And it took me a really long time to do it for myself. So once I finally was like, who am I kidding? This is actually what I want to be doing. I'm already buying the books. I'm already reading the things. I'm already doing all of these things.

just afraid, you know? And so I love this job. I love what I get to do. It is a huge privilege for me to sit with people and...

What is what?

Pauline (17:24)

Well, we are really glad that you made that decision. And you're right, being a therapist is a privilege. And I say it all the time. I feel it all the time.

And so for anybody out there who's listening who has been in therapy or has thought about being in therapy, know that we really feel that privilege of being able to sit with you and walk with you and hold space for.

all of the things that you're experiencing now and the stories that you bring in, right? Because like you talked about your mom's story and that's a story that you carry with you through your life, right? It becomes part of who you are. It's part of your DNA. And so when we get the privilege of being in an office with you, it's not just today, Megan. It's all of the things that have.

part of your life and created all the different parts of you.

And that is that for therapists, that's just like a magical part of our job is to be able to do that. And one that we don't take for granted and really enjoy. End is hard, but.

totally totally worth it.

Yeah, yeah, there, there, you said it. ⁓ Is there, guess, the only other, I mean, I have tons of questions. I could talk to you all day, but we'll be back here.

Like what would you want to say to somebody who's going through something common but not normal?

Megan (19:23)

Well, I say a couple of things. One is, first of all, I listen to what their experiences. Because I think the telling of the story is so important, especially when it's new. Sometimes it's just repetition of telling the story. So to make sure that I am that listener for them.

that there is a lot of hope that people get better all of the time and not only do they get better, they grow and change in their life expands from adversity and from challenge and suffering. And that's not too bright-sided, like that's not to say like, just look at the positive side. It's what you had talked about, like post-traumatic growth or meaning-making, know, being able to decide to make meaning.

challenging situation.

to what we talked about last week is getting into support, whether that's peer support, which we talked about can be extremely valuable, especially if you're going through specific types of challenges that other groups are.

It's you feel like you find someone that you are like, okay, I can feel safe enough in this situation to really explore.

Pauline (21:13)

So just because something is common doesn't mean that we have to accept it as normal.

Megan (21:20)

Yeah, it's not. It's not normal. It's... and we all have not normal things that happen to us. Like, that's life.

Pauline (21:28)

Yeah, and it's okay to

have feelings about not normal things happening, including like, why is this happening to me?

Megan (21:36)

Why is it happening to me? I've done everything right. That's, you know, and yeah, you did. Like it's not... ⁓

suffering isn't doled out that way, you know? It's not, it's not fair. Like, it's definitely not

Pauline (21:54)

I had a client once

say to me something like, it's not a pizza. It's not like everybody gets one equal slice.

Megan (21:59)

Yeah, yeah, and I always talk about that quite a bit in When people say like well at least I'm not you know I have to remember like other people have it worse than me sure do you want their worst? or their experience no you're dealing with your experience and what's really going on with you and you

Pauline (22:26)

And that might be the worst

thing for you right now.

Common does not mean normal.

Megan (22:43)

And that's

Pauline (22:46)

So there, you said it.

and hopefully someone out there hears it.

Well, thank you, Megan. As always, it's been fun. I will see you very soon. See you next time. Bye, everybody.

Megan (23:05)

you next time.